New Chisels.... - Router Forums
 28Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-17-2019, 05:14 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
sreilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Country: United States
First Name: Steve
Posts: 934
 
Default New Chisels....

And I'd viewed more videos than I can take. As I haven't bought or used chisels in a long time, and those were Stanly's used to notch wood like 2x4's and the like, I bought a set of Narex Bench chisels and finally got around to taking them out of the packaging. I had also gotten a set of Narex Mortise chisels. So after seeing these videos and wanting to do the right thing I decided to flatten the back side of the chisels. I have the DMT Diamond Duo plates with Coarse/Fine/X-Fine diamond plate surfaces. I found from trying to flatten a bench plane iron that I needed something a bit more than coarse to start with as the iron had never been flattened. So I ended up with using some Norton wet/dry 220 grit paper which did a decent job of getting the stubborn edges flat all the way across and then proceed with the other three steps polishing it more and more as I went. I finished the iron using the Veritas MKII system and got a really shard iron. So this morning I was excited about taking on the chisels until I wasn't. As the shoulder isn't 100% yet and won't be for at least another 5-7 weeks I just wanted to flatten the widest chisel and check it's flatness. Hoping the coarse plate would be a good starting point I quickly became discouraged. I'm using water as my lubricant and I'm only trying to flatten from the tip back maybe 2-3" and quickly saw that this was far from flat. I had run my HF 3 chisels very quickly and they did well, mostly in about 10 minutes on coarse but the Narex was well into 40-45 minutes and that included the 220 grit sandpaper and coarse diamond stone, possibly longer. I was starting to feel some soreness in my hand and realized I was flattening them as well. As trying to hold the width of the chisel flat and with pressure I was using both hands similar in the same method you would for CPR except I was standing. They don't mention what to do with skin cells in the mesh of the diamond stone but I figured I'd clean that up for good measure and the slurry was stopping any bleeding.....and I have really smooth palms. The chisels in this subject are found here https://www.infinitytools.com/narex-...-bench-chisels

So back to Google, DMT's website, and Amazon (the website not the jungle). So I ordered the Extra Extra Coarse Diamond Stone and should have that in a few days but I still have the issue with holding the chisels flat on the stones. So I immediately thought of the wisdom of this group and thought I could entertain you with my antics, abrasions, and newly smoothed skin while seeking some wisdom other then "send them to Louie's Sharpening Service and get it done for $50". I can't be the first, and if I am I loose, to have this kind of issue with sharpening, or at the least the flattening process. I was thinking that there must exist somewhere a holder that will allow a strong grip on a small part so it can be help down flat with pressure and allow good clear hand contact. Anything guys and gals? My palms would greatly appreciate it. Some pics included to hopefully see the problem.

Next thing to tackle would be the mortise chisels...........
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	back.jpg
Views:	104
Size:	296.9 KB
ID:	365893  

Click image for larger version

Name:	back2.jpg
Views:	100
Size:	244.7 KB
ID:	365895  

Click image for larger version

Name:	back3.jpg
Views:	95
Size:	471.3 KB
ID:	365897  

Click image for larger version

Name:	back4.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	292.5 KB
ID:	365899  

Click image for larger version

Name:	back5.jpg
Views:	92
Size:	216.2 KB
ID:	365901  

sreilly is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-17-2019, 06:05 PM
Registered User
 
vchiarelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Country: Canada
First Name: Vince
Posts: 3,456
 
Default

@sreilly - Steve: when I need to flatten the back of a chisel or plane iron, I use the magnetic base from a dial indicator to start. Saves me from having to exert pressure using just my fingers. I start with some 80 grit sandpaper on plate glass if the back needs a lot of flattening, moving up to 120, then 150. At that point I'll move to my diamond plates then onto my Japanese water stones.

Some folks call me Vince - other folks call me...........
vchiarelli is offline  
post #3 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-17-2019, 06:21 PM
Registered User
 
sgcz75b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Country: United States
First Name: Steve
Posts: 161
 
Default

Rob Crosman has some great youtube vids on plane and chisel sharpening. He goes further than me with water stones, but I don't see the need for myself. Also look at the Trend youtube videos with Jim Barry.

I found that for 50 years I was working far too hard at it using the old supposed 'tried and true" techniques that were difficult and profanity-producing. Plus, modern diamond plates make it easy. Not only for planes and chisels, but carbide router bits and forstner drill bits, and bevel edge garden tools. I've given away all my old Arkansas stones to someone who has lots of time and prays to the mysterious Sharpening God for results,

I now use a Trend 300/1000 grit diamond stone then followed by a 3x8 piece of leather rough-side up with green rubbing compound. Easy, fast, and very sharp.

Even taking new chisels and planes and flattening the back takes no longer than 10-15 minutes with frequent sips of coffee. Once the back is flattened it will rarely be necessary to do it again. Edge touch up is a matter of a few minutes at most.

Try working not so hard and you may see results faster. Good luck with a quick shoulder healing.

Steve

"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." Christopher Hitchens

sgcz75b is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-17-2019, 06:25 PM
Registered User
 
JOAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: United States
First Name: Theo
Posts: 6,004
 
Default

Ouch, pricey things, aren't they? I have/had a set of a dozen, from HF possibly, that I used for a long time, but last time I looked, they apparently followed my younger son home. Never saw a need to flatten the backs, did all my sharpening on a belt sander, and they performed great. I've got my eye on a replacement set on ebay, 12 for around $12. Look just like my old ones, made to be whacked with a carving mallet. I don't know, but if I wanted to flatten the back of some, I believe I would start thinking belt sander, possibly disc. Chisels that pricey tho, I'd get some el cheapo chisels to practice with first, maybe yard sale chisels. I don't watch youtube about things like that, so just what are you supposed to be gaining by flattening the backs of your chisels?

"It ain't what you're told, it's what you know." - Granny Weatherwax
Some days, the supply of available curse words is insufficient to meet my demands.
Call me a craftsman, artisan, or artistic, and I will accept that. Call me an artist and you will likely get a quite rude comment in return. I am not a @#$%ing artist.
JOAT is online now  
post #5 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-17-2019, 06:30 PM
Forum Contributor
 
Stick486's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Country: United States
First Name: Stick
Posts: 24,626
 
Default

use a speaker magnet to hold the chisel or the like...
paint the back of the chisel w/ a felt tip.. (when you are flat the felt tipping will be gone)...
use a circular motion on your stone..
every time you change grits, change the direction of the motion..
you only need to flatten the 1st half to 2/3rds of the chisel...

.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf SharpeningPlaneIronsandChisels.pdf (6.94 MB, 71 views)

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”
Stick486 is online now  
post #6 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-17-2019, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
sreilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Country: United States
First Name: Steve
Posts: 934
 
Default

Thanks guys, I knew you'd come through. The first mention of magnets and my mind was swimming with ideas. I could use some rare earth magnets I have and use them recessed into a flat wooden handle to keep those chisels and plane irons steady and the hands off the surface. I know these things, just deep down farther then I looked it seems. Stick thanks for the advice and pdf. Those mortise chisels should be fun. Arthritis is having some affect as well so a larger surface to hold will help tons. Thanks again. Now where did I put those magnets.........
sreilly is offline  
post #7 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-17-2019, 07:12 PM
Registered User
 
sgcz75b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Country: United States
First Name: Steve
Posts: 161
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
I don't watch youtube about things like that, so just what are you supposed to be gaining by flattening the backs of your chisels?
Sharp chisels.

Try watching the recommended youtube channels and you'll understand. The back is as important as the bevel edge. The bevel doesn't exist in isolation. It's an important concept to understand and will help you with all edged implements.

"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." Christopher Hitchens

sgcz75b is offline  
post #8 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-17-2019, 07:53 PM
Registered User
 
Nickp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Nick
Posts: 3,357
 
Default

@JOAT

The importance of flattening the back of the chisel is to make sure the knife edge, after sharpening the bevel, has a straight edge...see pic below...

Imagine if the back were not flattened (gray area in the pic)...the sharpened edge would not be straight.
Attached Images
 
TenGees and Stick486 like this.

Nick

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Points to Ponder...

LEARNING - the decision you make to know and
understand more about some thing.

TIME - the thing that gets in the way of learning.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Nickp is offline  
post #9 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-17-2019, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
sreilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Country: United States
First Name: Steve
Posts: 934
 
Default

The sharp comes from the edge of two points meeting, the bottom flat and the beveled angle.
sreilly is offline  
post #10 of 45 (permalink) Old 02-17-2019, 09:12 PM
Registered User
 
JOAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: United States
First Name: Theo
Posts: 6,004
 
Default

Nope, not watching utube videos on it. Don't trust many utube videos. Got my belt sander sharpening idea many years ago, from a world class furniture maker, and darned if I can recall who it was, but it has worked very well for me, so not changing my sharpening method. From what I learned, got his chisels at the local hardware, and never flattened the backs of his chisels. Plane irons, fine, they always cut at the same angle - or at least supposed to. Chisels never cut at the same angle, they always are at a different angle, even if it is just a minute difference, so as far as I can tell a minor bit off on the sharpening is meaningless. My grandfather was what most would call a master carpenter today, and none of his chisels had flattened backs, as far as I know. Do chisel manufacturers recommend flattening the backs?

"It ain't what you're told, it's what you know." - Granny Weatherwax
Some days, the supply of available curse words is insufficient to meet my demands.
Call me a craftsman, artisan, or artistic, and I will accept that. Call me an artist and you will likely get a quite rude comment in return. I am not a @#$%ing artist.
JOAT is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Router Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: Marples and Woodcraft UK Mortise and Butt Chisels Ray Newman Woodworking Classifieds 6 09-16-2015 09:34 PM
Buying advice: good price on these chisels? Litterbug Tools and Woodworking 14 09-05-2015 08:02 PM
carving tools lyjan Tools and Woodworking 3 08-16-2010 07:53 PM
Best value in chisels? rstermer Tools and Woodworking 8 10-29-2008 01:52 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome