220 extension cord for tools - Page 4 - Router Forums
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post #31 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sgcz75b View Post

My idea is to use a 50 amp male plug matching my existing old-style 50 amp welding female receptacle on one end and add a female welding style receptacle on the other end and equip all the 220 tools with the matching male plugs on the tools cords.

That way all tools, including my welder, can be serviced by one 20-25' extension cord.

Thanks.

Steve
As long as none of your machines require the neutral that will not be present if your welder 50 amp plug is wired to code. As I mentioned some machines with mag starters will have 120v coils so that they can be used either 120 or 240v. In those you SHOULD use a control transformer to get 120v rather than using the ground as a neutral.
Rob
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post #32 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 12:32 PM
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I just did exactly what you want to do. I added a 20 amp plug wired from my welder plug. I only used 12 gauge wire and it's not a great idea but it's for my planer and I'll be standing next to it the whole time it's running so I think I can manage the risk. The best way to do what you suggest is to take the wire from the welder plug and run it into a sub panel. Some sub panels allow you to run a wire out that is direct and not fused. That could allow you to hook up to the welder again without going through another breaker other than the the one in the main panel. That would allow a 30 amp sub panel which could be used for the tools you want to run as none of them should be greater than 20 amps. That should be code compliant I think.
This is manifestly incorrect and against code, your 20 amp receptacle must be wired for the 50 amp breaker because it is part of your building's hard wire.
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post #33 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 03:27 PM
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This is manifestly incorrect and against code, your 20 amp receptacle must be wired for the 50 amp breaker because it is part of your building's hard wire.
Rob
I am acutely aware of that. I've been doing all my own wiring for the last 45 years and most got inspected and passed. I needed a plug for my planer because my son filled the back end of my shop with his possessions when he split with his girlfriend of about 10 years and I can't reach the plug it should go to with the extension cord I have. Most of the time I leave the breaker to it turned off as I am not logging anymore and don't weld very much anymore as a result. So it's only live when I'm standing a few feet away. I believe the risk is manageable under those circumstances.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
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post #34 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 03:36 PM
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Steve; there's two separate isssues going in this discussion;
1...everything being protected on the supply side of the 50A breaker (strictly according to the Electrical Code)
2...the load (downstream) components, and particularly the motor and other tool components which as Charles explained would have basically no protection other than what's built into them, using the 50A breaker. It's massively oversized for overload protection as opposed to a short cct.
Charles pointed out that without proper overload protection the motor would likely fry it's windings if the tool jams for example (motor shaft can't turn but the power is still flowing.)


Totally beside the point, but sort of related:
The gym I go to has condo units above. This morning when I arrived the place was crawling with cops and firedept. guys. Somebody tried to use a propane camp-stove INDOORS and caused an explosion, blowing out his ste. windows and setting off the sprinklers. You gotta wonder...
(Never a dull moment up here in Wonder land)
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post #35 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 04:54 PM Thread Starter
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Problem solved! I called a retired electrician who just left the shop. He's going to install 2 new 30 amp 220 outlets, 4 new interior 110 outlets, 2 exterior 110 outlets, and check the existing welding plug and make me a 20' extension cord for my welder. For 5-600 plus the cost of materials.

I'll have about $1000 in it when done. So money well-spent.

Next up - after the bandsaw it's time for a jointer and planer.

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread.
Steve
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post #36 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 04:59 PM
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The right decision, Steve! Money well spent.
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post #37 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 05:02 PM
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"I called a retired electrician who just left the shop"
Wait...what?
Another retiree not clear on the retirement concept!
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post #38 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Cherryville Chuck View Post
I am acutely aware of that. I've been doing all my own wiring for the last 45 years and most got inspected and passed. I needed a plug for my planer because my son filled the back end of my shop with his possessions when he split with his girlfriend of about 10 years and I can't reach the plug it should go to with the extension cord I have. Most of the time I leave the breaker to it turned off as I am not logging anymore and don't weld very much anymore as a result. So it's only live when I'm standing a few feet away. I believe the risk is manageable under those circumstances.
For the sake of everybody else reading this thread the problem is your wire size to the 20 amp receptacle should be #6 for 50 amps if it is hard wired because the next owner of your house will not know it is not. Your ''extension cord'' to the 20 amp receptacle would be to code if it was fitted with a male 50 amp plug instead of hard wired, though it is not an extension cord if it passes through, is attached to or in a wall.. It is dead easy to put a fused disconnect right beside the 50 amp receptacle, hard wired with #6, and then run your 20 amp circuit from there. You can buy a half metre of #6 tec cable to do the job very cheaply. This is one reason it is nice to have surface mount wiring in a shop where machines get shuffled around.Once again a reminder that a welder outlet is two hots and a ground, no neutral like a four pronged stove or dryer outlet, and that your panel breaker is there to protect the wire from over heating, NOT to protect a motor or act as an on/off switch.
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post #39 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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"I called a retired electrician who just left the shop"
Wait...what?
Another retiree not clear on the retirement concept!
He enjoys life more. No more union BS and does what he wants, when he wants, and can help people without the ridiculous union rules.

He actually enjoys working 8 hr days for honest work and honest and well-deserved pay. That's a rarity.

I'm glad to have him.
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post #40 of 74 (permalink) Old 02-25-2019, 09:11 PM
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I bought a heavy duty extension cord so I could run my table saw. 32 years and counting, and we have never used the 220v dryer connection (30 A breaker). I changed out the receptacle for use as 220v regular type plug, and changed out the other end to match the plug on the Grizzly 3hp table saw. No problem with over-amping. Several times during extended use (lots of ripping), I would check the cord to see if it was hot, but no problem.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
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