Dust Collector Design - Page 2 - Router Forums
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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 08:47 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cherryville Chuck View Post
My brother lives just north of Columbiana so shouldn’t be too far from you.
Columbiana is about 30 miles southeast which would be just over a half-hour drive. Is your brother a woodworker?
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 09:28 AM
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Stick, I checked out the links for the DC's and they are less expensive than I thought, but still somewhat outside of my budget. I'll just have to see what I can do. For my clarification though, are you saying the $396 1-1/2 hp Grizzly will perform better than the ~$200 2 hp Harbor Freight? Big price difference.
read about the issues w/ the HF machines, what it takes to keep them running, what has to be done to them and go from there......
search this forum... there are several threads on this DC...
I'm saying the base HF unit is a piece of junk and in the long run not a good investment at all... as in a waste of money... that makes it expensive at any price...
I think the people that were writing the ratings for sears tools are now writing for HF...
Impeller and motor failures are a common occurrence w/ them... so do you replace or repair..
Tom says to buy a 2nd unit for parts and add canisters....
do your tangible and intangible costs... not such a great deal w/ a replacement impeller at a 100 plus dollars and canister at over 200 dollars...
add separator to it too...
bag type DC's are not in the same realm as canister.. think of them as dust distributors...

the wallet thinkers always seem to come up w/ - ''all ya gotta do'' or ''it's the same but different'' yadda yadda yadda...
I like doing nothing to an item.. outta the box and into operation works for me...

Here's some VOE...

"There is hardly anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and those people who consider price only, are this man's lawful prey. It is unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much you lose a little money - that is all. * When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.* * The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot; it cannot be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better"
John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)


I have a Jet 1200VX. Jet DC-650 and Oneida DC's... (15 and 25HP)
look into the Jet 650... nothing to add on to it..

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
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look into the Jet 650... nothing to add on to it..
This is a single stage similar to the HF. I know you said that there's nothing to add on to it, but would the Jet DC-650 benefit from the addition of a Dust Deputy. I ask this because I have read many comments regarding the huge benefit to the DC system by adding it as a second stage. I will be exhausting into the shop so I would like to minimize the amount of dust.
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 10:48 AM
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The HF unit is the one thing about which I disagree with Stick. If you buy it on sale the price is around $168 dollars. I've had two trouble free for several years. One for each shop area (shop and garage), one with the Wynn drum filter and the other with just the bag (sits outside the garage during use). I think Stick has a point for a heavy use shop, but which unit in our price range has the ability to run for a thousand or more hours per year? I'm certainly not using it that much, and if I had a heavy use shop, I'd be spending far more ($1200-1800) for an industrial unit. BTW, the HF unit comes in a great padded package and takes an hour or so to assemble.

The impeller is sufficient for a home shop as is. Stick is talking about modifying it by replacing the HF impeller with one sold by Rikon, which greatly increases air flow, and is metal, not plastic. By using the Super Dust Deputy, you catch pieces that might damage the HF impeller, but you do not need to change the impeller to get good DC function. That is one of the modifications Stick pointed to. {One of our members did a long series of posts on upgrading the impeller and the tremendous increase it produced in flow.)

After realizing that many name brand tools are made in the same factories as, say, WEN tools, I really don't see any noticable difference between the various brands that use the same design as the HF unit. An American made motor of the same rating is more than the HF unit itself, so I doubt that a $400 brand name unit has that much better motors, the economics really don't work for the marketing company.

I don't have a store handy to check where the Jet, Grizzly and other brands of DC units were manufactured. Yet, I'd bet all the lower priced units come from Chinese factories. In fact. for example, the WEN 12 inch drill press has exactly the same casting marks as the Jet, priced half again as much as the WEN. I've noticed the same for many other tools. On the Grizzly link Stick posted, you'll see a ceiling mounted filter with timer and 3 speeds. It is exactly the same as the WEN unit that I got on sale on WalMart online for $99 delivered to my local store.

As I said, this is the only area in which I disagree somewhat with Stick, and then not when it comes to a commercial or heavy use shop. If I were a rich man, I'd probably have an American made DC unit with 220, 3 hp motor and a steel cyclone separator. But I'm not rich and I'm a hobbyist and I think most of us here fall into that category. I think you'll be very happy with the HF/Super Dust Deputy setup and the 30 gallon drum will be great.

One small modification I suggest is on the drum, add a half inch ply circle to mount the deputy on to make it rigid, and to cut a small opening somewhere on the lid, covered and sealed with glass or Lexan so you can see the dust level inside. Otherwise, your cue to empty the drum will be large amounts of sawdust in the HF unit's bag.

I found some 50 gallon plastic bags that fit the HF unit on Amazon. You won't be using many of them over your lifetime if you empty the drum regularly. 2/3rds is full in my drums.

Attached is a picture of the ceiling mounted dust filter by WEN. It is something to add since you're exhausting filtered air into the shop. Of course you can make do with a 20 inch box fan with a filter taped to the front. It just won't have the timer. You hang your filter from the ceiling on one side of the shop so you get a circular air flow. If you use a box fan, hang it upside down so you can reach the on/off/speed switch. Use aluminum duct tape to secure the filter tightly to the fan. Do not put the fan on the floor, it will just stir up and launch the sawdust.
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Last edited by DesertRatTom; 05-21-2019 at 10:58 AM.
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 11:07 AM
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This is a single stage similar to the HF. I know you said that there's nothing to add on to it, but would the Jet DC-650 benefit from the addition of a Dust Deputy. I ask this because I have read many comments regarding the huge benefit to the DC system by adding it as a second stage. I will be exhausting into the shop so I would like to minimize the amount of dust.
Correct. It will minimize the free sawdust. The dangerous stuff is the extremely fine particles, some of which will get through the filter. I usually wear a surgical style mask when I'm in the shop, a positive pressure mask when I've been cutting. The biggest offender and hardest to contain producer is the sliding miter saw. I use a shower curtain taped into a box with a 4 inch port to help contain it, but lots still escape. A future project is putting a platform outside so I can roll that saw outside when in use. Sounds like the ground level basement door will enable you to do the same to this big time sawdust producer.

The more I do, the less I accomplish.
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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 11:41 AM
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Note that the Jet unit at $400 has a cloth bag, so add the cost of a drum filter and you're up to $600, no shipping assuming you can get to a store, $80 shipping if you can't. The steel impeller is a nice feature and probably accounts for the increased CFPM. The fiber drum is about $70, the Super Dust Deputy is about $200 with connectors. Add shipping for the drum and SDD, maybe $50.

$ 400 Jet DC-650 No shipping, assuming pickup at store.
$ 200 Griz Drum filter
$ 70 Shipping
$ 70 Fiber drum 30gallon
$ 20 est. shipping
$ 200 5 inch Super Dust Deputy and connectors
$ 30 est. shipping
-------------------------------------
$ 980 Total cost, plus tax if applicable
====

This does not include any costs for hoses and other parts of the system.

All costs are roughly the same except for the HF's lower original price, assuming it is purchased on sale with a coupon. Each buyer will have to choose their options, for example, when I set my units up, I didn't have the super dust deputy, but used the Rockler DC connectors in the fiber drums--not as effective as the Super Dust Deputy, but more than adequate. If you can set the unit outside somehow, the Jet filter bag filters 2.5 microns vs. the HF 5 micron. What has changed for me is that I want to recirculate very clean air back into the shop.

It's been many years since I checked prices on the Jet unit, and I remember it being substantially higher. Since I already have the HF units, this is all moot for me, and the HF unit is still, as is, a pretty good buy for a small shop or someone on a very tight budget.

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Last edited by DesertRatTom; 05-21-2019 at 11:50 AM.
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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 12:16 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for a ton of good information Tom. My thoughts are similar to yours in that I'm just a hobbyist and don't put a lot of hours on my equipment and so it's hard for me to justify putting extra money into it if I don't need to. If I went commercial, which I have absolutely no plans on doing, I too would certainly opt for a better quality system.

I feel quite confident that Stick is correct in everything he said, but perhaps not for my particular situation. I plan on looking into the Wen or similar unit for additional filtration. I think that most people would agree that health is something that you can't put a price tag on.

I have learned a lot from this post, and the system that I initially imagined will be quite different from the one I will be installing. Whenever I ask a question on this forum, I get great advice. Thank you everyone for your valuable feedback.
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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by chuckgray View Post
this is a single stage similar to the hf. I know you said that there's nothing to add on to it, but would the jet dc-650 benefit from the addition of a dust deputy. I ask this because i have read many comments regarding the huge benefit to the dc system by adding it as a second stage. I will be exhausting into the shop so i would like to minimize the amount of dust.
yes it will benefit...

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”
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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 04:08 PM
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Note that the Jet unit at $400 has a cloth bag, so add the cost of a drum filter and you're up to $600, no shipping assuming you can get to a store, $80 shipping if you can't. The steel impeller is a nice feature and probably accounts for the increased CFPM. The fiber drum is about $70, the Super Dust Deputy is about $200 with connectors. Add shipping for the drum and SDD, maybe $50.

$ 400 Jet DC-650 No shipping, assuming pickup at store.
$ 200 Griz Drum filter
$ 70 Shipping
$ 70 Fiber drum 30gallon
$ 20 est. shipping
$ 200 5 inch Super Dust Deputy and connectors
$ 30 est. shipping
-------------------------------------
$ 980 Total cost, plus tax if applicable
====
why did you include the separator in the pricing for the DC-650???
and why price a Jet unit w/o canisters and upgrade it instead of a unit that already has a 1 micron canister filter...

w/o any serious shopping..

build your own deputy...
30 gallon trash can w/ lid - 25$
major extreme duty trash can... 35$
PVC or HVAC fittings.. 11~28$ depending on what you select...
no shipping... all local BB purchases...

not on sale DC-650 w/ canisters and cleaning paddles.... 550$ plus 60$ shipping...
https://www.rockler.com/jet-dust-col...anister-filter

no shipping from Amazon..
https://www.amazon.com/DC-650CK-Coll...gateway&sr=8-3

HF.... (figures from Tom's posting)
1. impeller upgrade................100?
2. separator (parts)...............100?
3. WYNN filter.......................200?
4. shipping for all the parts....100?
5. price of HF unit.................200
6. 2nd HF unit......................200
7. estimated CFM.................?

why even bother upgrading when you can plug and play...

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”
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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Stick486 View Post
I'm saying the base HF unit is a piece of junk and in the long run not a good investment at all... as in a waste of money... that makes it expensive at any price...
.....................................
Impeller and motor failures are a common occurrence w/ them... so do you replace or repair..



Hmmm, all I've ever read is that it' a great value. I've never read anything about failed motors and impellers.


I've had mine for about 5-7 years, and it's been great. Best $135 I've spent.


It's more than adequate right out of the box, with no upgrades at all.



People will tell you that you must get a canister filter. My experience is that the bag doesn't allow any dust through it.




To your original questions.
You want to run 4" all the way to the machines. If possible, replace 2-1/2" ports with 4" ports, and collection will greatly improve. 2-1/2" hose will not work well with a dust collector.

I'd actually run a 5" main line, as that's the size of the intake port on the HF.
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