Corner Cabinet Questions - Page 2 - Router Forums
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-01-2020, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
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As you have it now the glue is butt to butt...on the inside the glue will be butt to face...also, if you put in any screws or nails, they will go across the plywood grain rather than into it. Just thinkin' out loud...
I understand the thought but keep in mind this piece will have no load bearing at all. It simply fills in the open spot and is basically for looks, to fill that gap. It wont have any interaction with the wall but the two sides that it attaches to will. Maybe I'm missing something here. I do appreciate the thoughts as that's the reason I did these first, to work out any kinks before I do the actual pantry cabinets. I have though I may change things up a bit and actually have a 3/4" offset to the back/top/sides to allow for cleats fro hanging to more evenly distribute the weight keeping n mind the walls have been done for 18 years and no provision has been made for hanging cabinets. Of course I can cut into the sheet rock and add supports but that would be messy and unnecessary I think. Cleats help more evenly distribute the weight and our use of these won't be for heavy items as they will be higher up. The heavy stuff will be on the rolling cart below.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-01-2020, 11:26 AM
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Exactly what Nick said. The back will look ugly but if it will never be seen again then that isn't important. If it might be seen again as in a china cabinet or corner style grandfather clock then you would want to bevel the sides to match the center piece. As for looks on the inside it will look as good or better. They way you were going there was the possibility of showing a crack if the piece didn't fit precisely to the sides (that would also make for a weak joint). With my way you just have a joint line. Since it overlays the sides there is no possibility of having a crack. Plus you have more glue surface. I use brads to join them but like Nick said there other methods like finishing nails, screws dowels, etc. Brads are just quick, easy, and one handed.

It seems to me I may have had to add shims behind the toe kicks to get those to fit properly on the corner boxes.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-01-2020, 11:42 AM
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I understand the thought but keep in mind this piece will have no load bearing at all. It simply fills in the open spot and is basically for looks, to fill that gap. It wont have any interaction with the wall but the two sides that it attaches to will. Maybe I'm missing something here. I do appreciate the thoughts as that's the reason I did these first, to work out any kinks before I do the actual pantry cabinets. I have though I may change things up a bit and actually have a 3/4" offset to the back/top/sides to allow for cleats fro hanging to more evenly distribute the weight keeping n mind the walls have been done for 18 years and no provision has been made for hanging cabinets. Of course I can cut into the sheet rock and add supports but that would be messy and unnecessary I think. Cleats help more evenly distribute the weight and our use of these won't be for heavy items as they will be higher up. The heavy stuff will be on the rolling cart below.

Steve, keep in mind that when the corner is not clipped it adds strength to the cabinet and helps prevent it from racking...even when handling it for installation. When you clip the corner and do not reinforce it to its full strength you could experience some racking. If you clip it and leave it as you have it now, make sure the top and bottom make up for the loss of corner strength.

If I understand what you have described, you essentially have two 1/2 cabinets held by the top and bottom without a good corner. Just a precaution...

Nick

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-01-2020, 01:41 PM
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Steve, I have only done this with melamine-faced particle-board, which is the standard for kitchen cabinet carcasses over here. To me the clipped corner is a bit like Love Story - never having to say you're sorry. I unashamedly copied a commercial unit, as those guys had already sorted out the issues for ease of production.
1. The oblique filler piece was much wider than yours. If one butts the two back pieces at 90 degrees, that additional space is largely wasted - a lot of users cannot comfortably reach into the corner - I can't. I imagine that there is a carousel in the cabinet, and think of clearing the carousel with the filler piece - the rest is wasted space to me.
2. The filler piece was bevelled at 45 degrees along each long edge. Easier to do than beveling the larger end pieces. Placed as Charles said, on the inside, with the bevels facing to the back. If the end pieces are at a true 90 degree orientation to each other, two clean joint lines, no need to worry about the length of the hypotenuse compared to the thickness of the panels. In your case, you will be able to glue the bevels to the plywood faces - not possible with melamine.
3. The thing to pay attention to, is that the filler piece needs to extend the thickness of the top and bottom at the back - that way it can be fixed to those components, adding to rigidity and antiracking. One can attach a small triangular piece to close off the bottom of the cabinet into the corner - the top is less critical, unless you will be placing small stuff on the top - been there.
4. In my case, the vertical components were fixed to the top and bottom by dowels for alignment, and knock-down fittings to pull everything together - not fine furniture standards, I know, but 20 years later, not a smidgen of movement.

I don't know how you will make or attach the frame - in my case, it did not matter on some of the cabinets, because they had complementary doors or bi-fold doors. Some others were even cruder, but because of the Euro-style overlapping doors, it was not a glaring faux-pas. The door will have to open to about 160 degrees, if you will be using Euro hinges, otherwise access is restricted.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-01-2020, 02:56 PM
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Steve, I have only done this with melamine-faced particle-board, which is the standard for kitchen cabinet carcasses over here. To me the clipped corner is a bit like Love Story - never having to say you're sorry. I unashamedly copied a commercial unit, as those guys had already sorted out the issues for ease of production.
1. The oblique filler piece was much wider than yours. If one butts the two back pieces at 90 degrees, that additional space is largely wasted - a lot of users cannot comfortably reach into the corner - I can't. I imagine that there is a carousel in the cabinet, and think of clearing the carousel with the filler piece - the rest is wasted space to me.
2. The filler piece was bevelled at 45 degrees along each long edge. Easier to do than beveling the larger end pieces. Placed as Charles said, on the inside, with the bevels facing to the back. If the end pieces are at a true 90 degree orientation to each other, two clean joint lines, no need to worry about the length of the hypotenuse compared to the thickness of the panels. In your case, you will be able to glue the bevels to the plywood faces - not possible with melamine.
3. The thing to pay attention to, is that the filler piece needs to extend the thickness of the top and bottom at the back - that way it can be fixed to those components, adding to rigidity and antiracking. One can attach a small triangular piece to close off the bottom of the cabinet into the corner - the top is less critical, unless you will be placing small stuff on the top - been there.
4. In my case, the vertical components were fixed to the top and bottom by dowels for alignment, and knock-down fittings to pull everything together - not fine furniture standards, I know, but 20 years later, not a smidgen of movement.

I don't know how you will make or attach the frame - in my case, it did not matter on some of the cabinets, because they had complementary doors or bi-fold doors. Some others were even cruder, but because of the Euro-style overlapping doors, it was not a glaring faux-pas. The door will have to open to about 160 degrees, if you will be using Euro hinges, otherwise access is restricted.
I have made several corner cabinets using this construction which gives a nice solid and clean joint in the back corner.

For the face frame design cabinet, the cabinet is made as shown in the photo posted by sreilly, with the outer edges of the end panels cut square (@ 90 degrees) and the back vertical edges of the face frame are cut at 45 degrees so that they fit tight to the side panels. Because the hypotenuse of the face frame material (using 3/4" wood and plywood) is longer than the thickness of the plywood, the result is a small triangular projection past the end face of the plywood. Careful work with a plane will remove this projection flush with the end panel, with the added benefit that the "exposed" corner of the cabinet is all wood, with no fragile plywood seam to get damaged. Because of the simplified construction, the cabinet is attached to the walls by screws through the corner strip shown as well as the projection of the side panels past the top and bottom of the cabinet.

The attached photos show a cabinet using this face frame construction, although the photo really doesn't show much (and I was a little lax taking in-process photos on this project). As it was just a shop cabinet, I also simplified the construction (a lot actually) as the OSB walls acted as the inner walls and let me cut down on material. The cabinet is made from Sande plywood purchased from Home Depot, the face frame and edging are made from poplar.
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-01-2020, 03:33 PM
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@tomp913
Tom, I thought of what you describe so clearly for the face frame, although I could not articulate it as well as you have. But in my mind, I encountered a problem if there were to be flanking cabinets on either side of the corner cabinet, each with a face frame. Am I correct in thinking that if all the cabinets' side panels were the same measurement front-edge to back, the styles of the frame of the corner cabinet would land up being recessed in relation to the styles of the adjacent cabinets?
The front vertical edges of the cabinets would align, but the thickness of the styles at the contiguous edges would differ considerably. It might require thicker face frame members, or deeper side panels for the corner cupboard, in order to avoid a step in the face frames. The thicker styles might then need a different approach to removing the protruding edge than hand planing, in my clumsy hands, anyway. For that reason, I might have the side panels larger on the corner cabinet, but wuld have to do a drawing to calcuate the difference.

Last edited by Biagio; 09-01-2020 at 03:43 PM. Reason: Clrification
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-01-2020, 10:18 PM
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@Biagio You are correct, the width of the side panels will have to be adjusted if there will be "standard" cabinets butted up to them as you would have in a normal kitchen application. It's not that hard to calculate the required panel width - and it may be just as easy to mock-up a joint and get the actual dimension needed - but I have to agree that the tolerances would need to be pretty tight so that you don't get a step there at the joint. I've never actually done this, the cabinets I've done have been free-standing, but I think if I had to do it then I would make the corner cabinet depth a little light and then just shim it out at installation so that the edges were 12" off the wall to match the face frames of the adjoining cabinets.

Been a while since I installed a kitchen with a diagonal wall, but I recall it being a little fussy getting the corner cabinet in, not only plumb and vertical, but so that the corners lined up with the rest of the run - not my most favorite job. Given that, installing a cabinet built like this probably shouldn't be too much different.

Another option, and I was having a hard time visualizing it until I found this video https://www.google.com/search?q=inst...2k_Qb__JaYBw29 would be to make the corner cabinet deeper than the adjoining cabinets - the corner cabinet in this video I believe is 15" and it actually looks OK with the standard 12" cabinet butted up to it - and the advantage is that you don't need to add the filler panel as they did.
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