Misbehaving hand plane - Router Forums
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-13-2010, 12:33 AM Thread Starter
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Default Misbehaving hand plane

I use hand planes once every blue moon so I did not see the point of spending large sums of money on one. I got this combo:

Busy Bee Tools Product Detail

I did the usual things, lapped the blades, sharpened them etc. and I have been very happy with them for the price.

I was going to do some larger pieces and given the previous positive experience I bought this one:

Busy Bee Tools Product Detail

I did the same prep with it. When I came to adjust the mouth, however, I found that I could not make it very narrow while keeping the blade protrusion small. Still, I figured it should cut all the same with the mouth a bit wider, perhaps with some tear-out is all. However, for some reason I cannot take a cut with this plane . It digs in the moment the blade sticks out below the sole even just a smidgin.

BTW I am working spruce and the #4 plane works it just fine.

I figure the big beast is going back anyway, but can someone advance a suggestion as to why it keeps digging in? Would back-bevel help?
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-13-2010, 01:25 AM
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I have a #5 Groz and it seems to work fine.

I cannot offer any assistance other than 1. the blade is still not sharp 2. the angle of the blade is incorrect or 3. (and it has happened to me) the blade is in upside down..

Hold on, you should get further assistance shortly.

James
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-13-2010, 08:55 AM
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I have a set of the Groz planes as well. The first problem with them is the soles are not flat. I flattened them all with a belt sander first (100 grit) then polished them by hand with varying grits of sandpaper glued to a flat piece of marble. I think I stopped at 1200 grit, that gave them a nice polished sole. It was a lot of work but worth it in the end.
The blades need serious sharpening. I tried a version of the scary sharp method, then used water stones but until I bought the Work Sharp 3000 I never had a keen enough edge on them. Now they cut like a hot knife through butter.
Check your sole, or sharpen the blade again. +1 to James comment about the blade orientation. I can't tell you how many time I made THAT mistake.

EGO postulo , EGO venalicium , EGO incidere.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-13-2010, 05:45 PM
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I've used Groz planes before and for the money, they really arn't that bad a plane at all. Certainly comparable to the Stanley home line. Take a straight edge to the sole. If the plane is convex at the mouth, take it back. Is the Bailey style adjuster working at all? can you extend/retract the blade with it? Did you try loosening up the frog and moving the assembly forward? With a #6 like that, you're looking to take .003-.005" shavings.

A good lil test to check the blade protrusion is to take a thin piece of scrap wood and run it over the blade from one side to the other. Taking note as to how much resistance you run into then using the level to make any adjustment. Sometimes these things can just be a little tempermental and require alot of tweaking.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-14-2010, 12:40 AM Thread Starter
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The blade is sharp but I shall check the sole tomorrow, thanks.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-14-2010, 06:47 AM
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It sounds like the sole is not flat. It could be either concave or convex. Convex is easier to fix if you feel like making the effort. For a #6, it really only needs to be flat around the perimeter and the area just in front and behind the mouth. If the rest is hollow, no big deal. Also make sure the mouth opening is smooth and free of burrs.

You can lap and polish the sole all you want but really, for a foreplane, you don't need to make it into a mirror.

The blade is more important on a foreplane. I've got the blade cambered on my 5, 6 and 7. This helps take a more aggressive shaving without digging in at the corners. On my #6 and #7 the camber is maybe such that the corners are back a little less than 1/32" from the center. That's enough to see a strong wedge of light when holding the blade and a square into the light.

Don't try setting the blade depth by eye. That's a waste of time. You can adjust out most of the skew by eye, sighting down the sole and slowly bring out the blade. Use the lateral adjuster to level the blade then slowly retract it again, still sighting down the sole. You should see the little black line disappear evenly. Again, use the adjuster to correct. Final lateral adjustment is done after you get a shaving to appear. Just nudge the lever over toward the heavy side and center the shaving. If the cap screw and cap iron are tight, the lever will hold. How tight? Depends on personal preference, I go for "need to squeeze pretty hard to lock the cap iron" tight. If you can close it by hitting it with a pillow, too loose. If you need an eight pound sledge, too tight.

With the blade fully retracted, take a test swipe. No cut, extend the blade just a 1/4 turn or less. Test cut and repeat. If you go too far, retract the blade but remember to advance the nut again to remove the backlash. Otherwise the blade will push back up with each pass.

Wax the sole with some parafin wax and have at it.

A #6 isn't intended to take ultra fine shavings (but you can) so having a slightly more open mouth is OK. Its intended to take some rather aggressive shavings. And even though it can take rank shavings, with a sharp blade, you shouldn't need much downward pressure. Just a little more than the weight of the plane does the work.

Last edited by rwyoung; 05-14-2010 at 12:19 PM. Reason: typos
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-14-2010, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crquack View Post
I figure the big beast is going back anyway, but can someone advance a suggestion as to why it keeps digging in? Would back-bevel help?
FYI, a back-bevel will increase the effective angle (somewhat at the cost of edge retention) and this also increases the effort required to push the plane. Unless you plan to use the #6 as a "super size smoother" I wouldn't bother with any more backbevel than what the "ruler trick" produces.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-14-2010, 07:49 AM
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Dittos to all that rwyoung said, sure sounds like the sole is not flat.

Hand planes are a hoot to use when all is well, i.e. sharp and tweaked... depending on your intended use of them, it's good to have a strategy:

YouTube - slab planing.mov

just ran across that vid yesterday... hth
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-14-2010, 12:24 PM
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I was demonstrating handtools at the Wood Show in Kansas City and just for giggles I had my Stanley #6 out to show how a handplane could take a lot of wood fast.

Well sharpened, I was taking heavy 1/32" shavings from hard maple. Then I could back off the blade and take a shaving you could read the newspaper through. This is a little bit of a parlor trick because I had selected the wood specifically for the demo so it had well behaved grain. I leave the mouth pretty wide on my #6.

The other fun thing was my #6 looks like hell. The tote is cracked, maybe 50-60% of the japaning is in good shape. At at some point in its life, it was dropped, making a small crack in the left side. That was brazed (and done well) and lapped. I think I paid all of $30 or $40 for it and it has its stock blade. This was especially fun when somebody brought up the cost of LN and LV planes. I'd have to look up the specifics again but I think it is 1920's vintage iron.

But like I said, part of what I was doing was unrealistic because of the wood.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-14-2010, 02:51 PM
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Rob... were you using a bailey or a bedrock? (assuming it was a stanley) I'm about 6 months new into planes and I love em!! Speaking for myself thus far, it has gone like this:

1: learn about em
2: learn how to sharpen em and set em up
3: Learn which plane for which job is the right one
4: practice, practice, practice, practice....

no one plane or setup works on all woods, so its a heck of a learning curve. But once you start taking those whisper thin shavings or can take a 1/2" twist out of a board in 10 minutes one can't help but get into it...
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