Us Poor Folk Can't Buy The Good Stuff - Router Forums
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post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-09-2014, 04:25 PM Thread Starter
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Default Us Poor Folk Can't Buy The Good Stuff

It's a typical hot summer day here in West Texas. Typically one of those days that makes it impossible to be out in a tin building where my woodworking tools are. So I spent some time reading about how poorly made the Grizzly woodworking tools are compared to the "Good Ones".

Kinda funny how such reading can effect a person's thinking. Up until now I have been very happy with my $700 dollar table saw, my Grizzly jointer and band saw. The only way that I can judge them is if they do what I bought them for and you know what, they do, and they do it just fine.

Oh, I know if I were running a professional shop that demanded more than I do, well the story would probably be different. I suspect that the majority of member of this forum are hobbist just like myself.

An example of one of the negative things that the writer said about a Grizzly table saw was that the cranks on the life and tilt had back lash in them. Heck, so what, my little table saw has lots of it and until I read about the issue I had never given it a thought. I use a Wixely tool to square or set the angle on the blade of my saw, the backlash hardly prevents me from doing the set up.

The writer talked about "soft cast iron" tables. To my uneducated mind that's a conflict in terms, but what do I know about such things and in five years of using my cheap Craftsman TS and using a sander with 220 grit paper to keep it polished, it still works just fine and I can't detect any area in it that effects the accuracy of the cuts that I make and I am pretty picky about such things.

I guess us poor folk will have to get along with what we can afford, We un's can't affort the the "Good Stuff".

Do you think that I'm bored with the afternoon.

Jerry
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post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-09-2014, 06:07 PM
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I have purchased several pieces of Craftex machinery. I purchased them based on need not on price or quality. I belief the words, expensive, better, more powerful, quality, are relative to the task that is required. I believe Craftex and Grizzly are equal based on where the equipment comes from.

I believe that a tool, no matter how good or how expensive it is,,, is only as good as it's driver.

I have had no issues with my economy tools that I purchased, because I knew ahead of time what I needed them for and they did the job.

Looking at things logically we have a diverse membership, taking in proffesional,, amature proffessional,, amature,, novice you name it I am sure it is here. Different needs require different tools.

How do we compare apples and oranges.. and I never believe everything I read,,, I have been successful with the economy tools.

Through the eyes of John,,, just my view.

John

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post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-09-2014, 06:13 PM
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Jerry, I think you hit on the key point when you say "The only way that I can judge them is if they do what I bought them for and you know what, they do, and they do it just fine."

My Porter Cable scroll saw cost less than half of what a Dewalt would cost, and the Dewalt less than half of what an Excalibur would cost. Does that mean my PC scroll saw is junk and can't be used? Nope, it is just fine for how often I use it and what I use it for.

My table saw and scroll saw combined cost less than an Excalibur scroll saw, but for what I do, they suit me just fine. Would a better scroll saw and better table saw make my projects better? I don't think so with my limited skill level. Besides as you pointed out, it is just a hobby for me not a business.

I admit to being absolutely astounded at some of the prices of the higher end tools and I'm not sure how one justifies the expense for a hobby. I am even more amazed when I see people with really expensive tools who never seem to make anything.

So, yep, I'll just muddle along with what I can afford, having a good time making what I make, and enjoying life. The money I save on tools keeps me in Irish whiskey. Life is good.

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post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-09-2014, 07:03 PM
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I have a shop full of Grizzly tools, they get the job done and won't break you.
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post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-09-2014, 07:07 PM
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I don't think there's any good stuff left . Ever since we moved all our factories to china or over seas the quality has gone downhill . I guess that's the price you pay to keep prices competitive

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post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-09-2014, 08:06 PM
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Thankfully I bought a Unisaw made in USA before this cost trend hit. I remember when Griz slapped the first full page ads in all the major mags. I hate cheap tools and feel bad when someone gets talked into buying one. We all know the only reason is price. And now we have cheap Delta, Porter Cable and DeWalt tools sold in big box stores. Dumbed down to meet the price of poorly made tools. All compeating on price alone. I hate what happened to tools and all the ways they found to lower the price. Every one of them is in direct relation to fit and finish, motors, crappy bearings and poorly made castings. Look how many years Crapsman sold a table saw with a fence and miter gage that didn't even work. All translate into break downs and replacement parts. And unbeknownst to the owner a tool that actually doesn't work as well as better tools. Not to mention the plethora of threads on how to repair, find parts and align them.

Why is it that someone who loves working in wood? Someone who is talented, skilled and learned in the craft. Seeks to find the cheapest price on a tool and never believes it will hinder their work, time and sheer joy of running a fine piece of equipment? Why isn't there a sence of worth that demands "nothing less than" for me?

You can set up a fine shop for life for far less than the price of an average car.

Al
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post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-10-2014, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Al B Thayer View Post
Thankfully I bought a Unisaw made in USA before this cost trend hit. I remember when Griz slapped the first full page ads in all the major mags. I hate cheap tools and feel bad when someone gets talked into buying one. We all know the only reason is price. And now we have cheap Delta, Porter Cable and DeWalt tools sold in big box stores. Dumbed down to meet the price of poorly made tools. All compeating on price alone. I hate what happened to tools and all the ways they found to lower the price. Every one of them is in direct relation to fit and finish, motors, crappy bearings and poorly made castings. Look how many years Crapsman sold a table saw with a fence and miter gage that didn't even work. All translate into break downs and replacement parts. And unbeknownst to the owner a tool that actually doesn't work as well as better tools. Not to mention the plethora of threads on how to repair, find parts and align them.

Why is it that someone who loves working in wood? Someone who is talented, skilled and learned in the craft. Seeks to find the cheapest price on a tool and never believes it will hinder their work, time and sheer joy of running a fine piece of equipment? Why isn't there a sence of worth that demands "nothing less than" for me?

You can set up a fine shop for life for far less than the price of an average car.

Al
What Al said. Especially about "the sheer joy of running a fine piece of equipment."

This is one of those arguments that never ends. I say to each his own. How much money one spends on a hobby is personal. No doubt a Harbor Freight table saw will cut a board in half just like a Saw Stop, PM, Jet, Hamer. For many that's all they care about. That's fine. How many times have you heard someone say "I just bought a ???? at Harbor Freight and it only cost..." Cost seems to be the driving force for most folks these days. If that makes you happy then you made the right choice.

As a hobbyist one can never justify the cost of their tools - from an economical point of view. It's just for fun and/or relaxation. How do you justify using a $2000 table saw, a $250 router in a $400 router table with a $350 router lift, and a couple of $20 router bits to make a picture frame you can buy at Hobby Lobby for $3.95?
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post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-10-2014, 05:15 AM
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<<As a hobbyist one can never justify the cost of their tools - from an economical point of view. It's just for fun and/or relaxation. How do you justify using a $2000 table saw, a $250 router in a $400 router table with a $350 router lift, and a couple of $20 router bits to make a picture frame you can buy at Hobby Lobby for $3.95?>>
Difficult. But if you remodel the kitchen the Missus will give you a laissez passer
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post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-10-2014, 05:52 AM
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I have admit have an old Grizzly saw, several Craftsman, some Porter cable, Dewalt, Milwaukee, and Harbor Freight tools. I have been in home shops where someone had all of the finest and had no idea of how to even build a pair of sawhorses. But they still enjoyed themselves. What I am trying to say is there is no relationship between skill and the quality of your tools. It is different when you run a business and making a living with your tools. You have tax write offs that can pay for top of the line equipment, if you have a good bookkeeper. I have been there and done that.

By the way Jerry you would have enjoyed being in the shop in that 100 degree heat with us this afternoon.. Caleb (my great grandson who is 15) said he was getting a bad case of the 'swamp nuts' as he called it.

Where there's a Willis there's a way!
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post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-10-2014, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by RainMan1 View Post
I don't think there's any good stuff left
horse hockey...

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

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