Is soft start important/useful? - Router Forums
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-13-2014, 10:35 PM Thread Starter
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Default Is soft start important/useful?

Hi, I'm new to woodworking, and tomorrow I will buy my very first table saw.

I decided that a Dewalt DW745 would be a good choice for me, however the Bosch GTS 10j has something that the Dewalt doesn't, the soft start.

That is when I started to ask myself if it's worth it?, the saws are almost at the same price.

What do you guys think?, is it a useful feature?.

Also consider that I will use the saw in a house, and when my circular saw starts I see how the lights in my house go down for a fraction of a second, not cool.

Let me know!.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-13-2014, 11:01 PM
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Go with a soft start if you are not using a dedicated electric outlet.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-13-2014, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemix View Post
Hi, I'm new to woodworking, and tomorrow I will buy my very first table saw.

I decided that a Dewalt DW745 would be a good choice for me, however the Bosch GTS 10j has something that the Dewalt doesn't, the soft start.

That is when I started to ask myself if it's worth it?, the saws are almost at the same price.

What do you guys think?, is it a useful feature?.

Also consider that I will use the saw in a house, and when my circular saw starts I see how the lights in my house go down for a fraction of a second, not cool.

Let me know!.
you betcha on the soft start.. easy on you and the equipment...
over all I believe the Bosch a bit better tool... and the customer service is outstanding...
at some point in time you'll need service and Bosch is way more likely to provide it as where DW can't and won't have the parts after 5 or 6 years...
I base this on having dealt w/ both companies... as of now there are no DW tools in inventory while I have Bosch tools that have been delivering for decades... last year Bosch had parts for two tools that were discontinued 30+ years ago...

I have several of these... might want to take a look... capacities exceed what you are considering...
GTS10XC:BOSCH-BOSCH GTS 10 XC Multifunctional Table Saw
and my two 745's have been junked..

Note... the principal reasons these saws electronically fail is because they were electrically starved... as in too long of an extension cords (reduced voltage to the saw - unwanted heat is generated by the saw it can't handle) or plugged into an to light weight of a circuit... (frequent tripping - circuit or saw) dull blades that make the saw work harder generating excessive heat... getting in a hurry...

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-14-2014, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Stick486 View Post
you betcha on the soft start.. easy on you and the equipment...
over all I believe the Bosch a bit better tool... and the customer service is outstanding...
at some point in time you'll need service and Bosch is way more likely to provide it as where DW can't and won't have the parts after 5 or 6 years...
I base this on having dealt w/ both companies... as of now there are no DW tools in inventory while I have Bosch tools that have been delivering for decades... last year Bosch had parts for two tools that were discontinued 30+ years ago...

I have several of these... might want to take a look... capacities exceed what you are considering...
GTS10XC:BOSCH-BOSCH GTS 10 XC Multifunctional Table Saw
and my two 745's have been junked..

Note... the principal reasons these saws electronically fail is because they were electrically starved... as in too long of an extension cords (reduced voltage to the saw - unwanted heat is generated by the saw it can't handle) or plugged into an to light weight of a circuit... (frequent tripping - circuit or saw) dull blades that make the saw work harder generating excessive heat... getting in a hurry...
Stick your much smarter than you get credit for

I have seen electronics in our communication industry burn up for what seems like no reason , but it ends up the components were starving for current for a brief time.

Wish my GI had a soft start as when it comes on you really know it .

I did hear guys here stating that the blade can distort to during a hard start , so that would be another benefit to having a soft start

I don’t always insulate , but when I do .
Ok ,I never insulate
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-14-2014, 12:41 AM
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Artemix I am curious. North American power is different than almost everywhere else. Our standard power is 110-120 volt, single polarity, 15 ampere circuits. This powers small table saws and most handheld power tools. Larger stationary power tools use double polarity 220-240 volt power of varying amperage. What is the norm in Argentina? Most of the tools here aren't available elsewhere on the planet but you speak about the same models of tools that we use.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-14-2014, 01:28 AM
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Artemix I am curious. North American power is different than almost everywhere else. Our standard power is 110-120 volt, single polarity, 15 ampere circuits. This powers small table saws and most hand held power tools. Larger stationary power tools use double polarity 220-240 volt power of varying amperage. What is the norm in Argentina? Most of the tools here aren't available elsewhere on the planet but you speak about the same models of tools that we use.
IIRC, single leg 220-240v, 50 Hz, AC as where we are single leg 110-120v, 60Hz, AC nominal....
as for the tool...
same base chaises only different motor and control configurations for the differences in electricity....
it seems each continent gets it's own model #... the saw I linked is a 4100 series here - same chaises..
WTB Bosch uses those different numbers to help keep track of what goes where...

one other thing I didn't mention was soft start help prevent bursts of high amp draws at start up.. that instant of high draw is referred to as transient voltage and/or locked rotor lock amps - the motor gets a flood of electricity, theres that hum you hear and then the motor stars to turn and the the surge of current quickly drops off... normal, correctly well maintained systems figure this in but if there other things running on the circuit you will experience ... call this nuisance tripping a bad thing... tough on electronics... another way to refer to tool electrical starvation would be "brown(ing) out"...

now comes the complications - you know that tool operator that pumps the trigger on their tools while under operation... on/off/on/off or lots of swings in the variable speed again and again causing volt/amp surges..... something has got to give and usually it's the tool through no fault of it's own... but.. to hear what the operator has to say about it - it sure is... on cordless tools it's a battery stomper...

say you plug too small of gage extension cord that's too long into a 120v outlet - maybe only a hundred volts usable electricity gets to the tool... not to mention the cord gets really warm and desegregates only compounding the problem... seen cords melt the snow they are laying on... now it's only a mater of time before the tool bites the dust...
wait!!! there's more!!! there's the operators that leave that way too long of a cord all coiled or spooled up... a hole new set of issues and problems...
same for using a 12-15 amp tool on a dedicated 15 amp circuit... no margins so it's only a mater of time again...
how many tools out there have electronics in them... speed control, torque controls/limiters, switches and etc???

'nuff said???

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
If only new layers hadn't been added....

Stick....
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"SNORK Mountain Congressional Library and Taxidermy”

Last edited by Stick486; 08-14-2014 at 02:39 AM.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-14-2014, 07:58 AM
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The abuses that stick lists are all committed regularly in construction. To me the worse offenders are the electricians that provide 15 amp temp circuits. So by necessity we commit the abuses.
There are lessons here on not only tool purchase but shop layout and extension cord use. I carry a 10 ga hundred foot cord to get power to my work area and use short 12 ga cords to power my tools It helps but tools still wear out

Learning is an exciting adventure
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-14-2014, 08:52 AM
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Stick, I think you are confusing induction motors with the universal motors usually used in these type of saws.

A universal motor will slow down on low voltage. That is one( not the only, nor the most common, perhaps) way of speed control.

Extension cords will indeed heat from high current devices. A 15 Amp saw is indeed a high current device!

An induction motor, such as an air compressor usually has, may indeed not even start if too long, or too small of an extension cord is used.

The thyristors(triacs) used in most speed control/soft start circuits operate as switches. There is near zero voltage across them when on and virtually no current for the time they are off. Either results in very low power consumption in the thyrister itself. This is why they can operate with very, very small heatsinks! By the way, they turn on and off 120 times per second(on60Hz), not just when you turn the tool on!

So... will a long extension cord be a problem? You will indeed have less power available to the tool. With a universal motor that may cause heating because it is pushed harder to get the job done... however it should run all day long without a load with no problems. Dull blades make this much worse with or without undervoltage!

Now with in induction motor? Whole different story! It will indeed burn up with too low voltage applied.

Remember snow melts above 32deg F or zero deg C. An extension cord really does not need to get very warm to melt snow. I wouldn't worry too much about that in and of itself. The allowable temp for the wire is much higher than that!


A bigger issue to me is ground adapters. Don't use them on high current devices, period. This include microwave, air conditioners, dehumidifiers, etc. Most power tools don't run long enough to be as big a problem, but I have seen many, many, many of those thing just melt form prolonged high current... remember you have two pair of relatively high resistance connections in a very small space in those things

I have actually not seen many(can't actually recall any) speed control modules fail from heat per se. All though it probably does speed up capacitor failure somewhat. The bigger issue is the quality of components used. Replace the failed one with a high quality( and properly rated!) one and you will likely not see a repeat failure. Loose connections from vibration is another common failure.This can of course cause arcing and burning issues, but is a symptom not the root cause.

So all in all I agree that we should limit the length of extension cord as much as possible. Also use the proper gauge cord for the tool being used. And I absolutely agree that it should not be used coiled up. Won't attempt to explain why except to say it will indeed heat more that way!

I am probably rambling a bit, and YMMV, but that is my $.02 worth!

I have found that hand tools are the best choice when I want to make mistakes at a slower rate of speed.

I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.

Last edited by Dmeadows; 08-14-2014 at 09:06 AM.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-14-2014, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
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The abuses that stick lists are all committed regularly in construction. To me the worse offenders are the electricians that provide 15 amp temp circuits. So by necessity we commit the abuses.
There are lessons here on not only tool purchase but shop layout and extension cord use. I carry a 10 ga hundred foot cord to get power to my work area and use short 12 ga cords to power my tools It helps but tools still wear out
Bill, tools will wear out, whether or not you use extension cord! I've seen power tools with 1 ft or less cords from the factory. No choice but to use an extension cord with those!

I have found that hand tools are the best choice when I want to make mistakes at a slower rate of speed.

I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-14-2014, 09:30 AM
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All the Bosch tools I own are very well made and precise. That's what I'd choose.
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