I'm just wondering... - Router Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-17-2014, 06:02 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: United States
First Name: Jerry
Posts: 2,645
 
Default I'm just wondering...

I'm just wondering why a person needs a band saw that will re-saw a workpiece that is taller than the width of their jointer.

I know that there is probably a very good answer to my question, but if I knew the answer I wouldn't be asking it.

I really thought that I was going to be happy and needed my 12" Grizzly when I bought it, I am happy with the saw, it is a very good one, but I have never needed to re-saw anything that is any where near 12", since my jointer is only a six inch machine I can't mill material wider that that.

Maybe if I were to re-saw taller material and just use the planer abd skip the jointger the results would be just fine. That may well be where I'm missing the boat, but where I buy my lumber the width of the stock is most from four to eight inches wide and tad over one inch thick.

Just wondering,

Jerry
Jerry Bowen is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-17-2014, 06:13 PM
Moderation Team
 
Cherryville Chuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Country: Canada
First Name: Charles
Posts: 15,916
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bowen View Post
I'm just wondering why a person needs a band saw that will re-saw a workpiece that is taller than the width of their jointer,

Maybe if I were to re-saw taller material and just use the planer abd skip the jointger the results would be just fine. That may well be where I'm missing the boat, but where I buy my lumber the width of the stock is most from four to eight inches wide and tad over one inch thick.

Just wondering,

Jerry
That's my reason Jerry. I sometimes cut 10" on mine but I also have an 8" jointer and am glad I went the extra 2". I usually cut 3" in from each edge on my TS first. Even with a 2hp motor 10" is a very heavy cut plus cutting from each edge makes the blade track through the cut without wandering.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
Cherryville Chuck is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-17-2014, 06:38 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Country: Canada
First Name: Dennis
Posts: 430
 
Default

A wider board can be finished with a hand plane. Lots of woodworkers do it.
denniswoody is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-17-2014, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: United States
First Name: Jerry
Posts: 2,645
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by denniswoody View Post
A wider board can be finished with a hand plane. Lots of woodworkers do it.

Dinnis,

That's the answer, a hand plane, but you have to own one, know how to use it, and know how to sharpen it and maintaine it. I don't own a hand plane. Anyone that does and knows how to use it is a real craftsman in my eyes. It's still a mystery to me how one works, I understand how it cuts, but not how to flatten a surface with one and be able to repeat getting the same thickness on more than one workpiece.

But you did answer my question for me, thanks,

Jerry
Jerry Bowen is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-17-2014, 07:33 PM
Moderation Team
 
MT Stringer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Mike
Posts: 5,712
 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bowen View Post
I'm just wondering why a person needs a band saw that will re-saw a workpiece that is taller than the width of their jointer.

I know that there is probably a very good answer to my question, but if I knew the answer I wouldn't be asking it.

I really thought that I was going to be happy and needed my 12" Grizzly when I bought it, I am happy with the saw, it is a very good one, but I have never needed to re-saw anything that is any where near 12", since my jointer is only a six inch machine I can't mill material wider that that.

Maybe if I were to re-saw taller material and just use the planer abd skip the jointger the results would be just fine. That may well be where I'm missing the boat, but where I buy my lumber the width of the stock is most from four to eight inches wide and tad over one inch thick.

Just wondering,

Jerry
My thinking is if I get some material that is 5/4 or 6/4, I can resaw it into two pieces and then run them through the planer to yield something like a 3/8 inch board instead of having to mill 4/4 or even 3/4 boards. That's a lot of wasted material going into the dust barrel.

I guess I will find out when I get my blade installed. The saw is tore down, but I got side tracked building cabinets.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!
MT Stringer is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-18-2014, 06:54 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Country: United States
First Name: Dennis
Posts: 408
 
Default

Wondering Jerry
Many of us use larger tools. I use my 20 inch planer or my 25 inch drum sander.
Dennis

Tough as nails and nearly as smart
Good tools don't cost- they pay!
64 ford is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-18-2014, 08:21 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: United States
First Name: russ
Posts: 40
 
Default

I wish I had a bigger band saw. I could cut up bigger tree trunks. But I make do with what I have.
russfranken is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-18-2014, 11:09 AM
Registered User
 
MikeMa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: United States
First Name: Mike
Posts: 1,041
 
Default

Jerry, you may be surprised about the usage of hand planes, they really aren't that hard to use. Over the last 5-10 years, hand tools in general have actually grown in popularity, especially with hobby and boutique woodworkers. This why you see companies like Lie-Nielsen and Lee Valley continue to push out new hand tools. There is also a decent market for the ultra-high end hand tools with your infill and wood bodied planes

The confusing thing with sharpening isn't the sharpening itself, but that there is that there are so many different ways, with different types of machines and stones to accomplish it. The fact is, any of them will work. The advice I give to people is pick a method and go with it, and learn the basics of sharpening with that.

I personally use both hand tools and and power tools in my shop very interchangeably. If I have a board that needs flattening that is too wide for my jointer, I will use my jack plane to get one side flat. It doesn't have to look pretty, it just needs to be flat. After I have face flat, I let the planer take over.

I still however have used planes to help achieve a finished edge, which often leaves a better surface then sanding will. This isn't hard either. Just like you would using a jointer, you pay attention to grain direction, and let the tool do the work. It is surprising how much feedback you get from the tool and the wood that helps guide you with proper use of the tool.

As for acquiring a hand plane, while the Lie-Nielsen and Lee Valley planes are expensive (but worth it), you are not stuck with buying them. There are many vintage Stanley Bailey hand planes on ebay that are very usable. In fact my "prized" plane is pre-WWI Bailey #7 Jointer plane.

To be honest, while I appreciate the what you say about those who use hand planes, I don't necessarily feel I am anymore a craftsman using hand planes, than those who only use power tools. The tool doesn't make the craftsman, it is how the tool is used.

That said, there are sometimes when making a specific joint is EASIER to make with hand tools than with power tools. Case in point, I am completing a couple english layout squares that each has 2 half lap joints at 45degree angles. I completed them using only hand tools, except for one cut for each joint on the band saw. Could I have done them on the router table and/or table saw. Sure, but I would have probably spent the better part of a day getting everything dialed in just right to get a perfect fitting joint. I got the 4 half lap joints done in an afternoon.

-Mike
Visit my woodworking blog: http://madermadeit.com/
MikeMa is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-18-2014, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: United States
First Name: Jerry
Posts: 2,645
 
Default

Mike,
Your post on hand planes, along with my "already curiosity", I can see another chapter in my woodworking education beginning to open. Right now I need to finish what I am working on and get some of my skills with what I have sharpened a bit, but I am certainly intrigued with hand planes and you just whetted my appetite and I really want to thank you for taking the time to post what you did.

So much of my fear admittedly has been the issue of sharpening, but you have, to some extent anyway, pretty much put that fear away. Sounds like it is just another learning process.

I think that you are saying a piece of material as wide as 12" could be re-sawed to width a little thicker than what is needed, then simply get it to lay flat and go to the planer to finish it up. Makes sense of course. So much of the material that is available to me at the lumber yard in Lubbock, Texas is well over six inches, very little of it is wider than ten inche however, and is often very beautiful. Consequently I have a lot of waste the way I have been working with it, using my six inch jointer.

The cost of a couple of high end planes could be off set by eliminating or at least minimizing the waste. Wonder if I can sell that concept to Vesta. She has implied, "that's being kind by the way", that maybe I need to slow down a bit on buying tools. I have gone a bit over board this year on my tool purchases. This year I have purchased a Dewalt router, an Incra 17" LS System, a JessEm doweling jig, a Bosch six Inche ROS, a PC cordless drill, a set of two Infinity miter lock bits, a carbide blade for the BS, another bi-metal blade for the saw and several odds and ends. By the way they are not giving the lumber away up there at the lumber yard.

So I go back and remember the day shortly after buying my first tools when I told my neighor that I thought that I had all of the tools that I was going to need. He looked at me over the top of his glasses and slowly shook his head, "Noooo Jerry" he said, "There is no end to buying tools once you have started like you have", man was he correct, I have enjoyed my woodworking adventure ever so much. The back and forth on this forum and the friends that I have made have been the icing on the cake. Just like what you just posted back to me Mike about hand planes.

Now which manufacturer am I going to start checking out ummmmm,

Jerry
Jerry Bowen is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-18-2014, 03:01 PM
Forum Contributor
 
DesertRatTom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Country: United States
First Name: Tom
Posts: 18,115
 
Default

Your neighbor is right about buying tools. It never ends. This is not necessarily a cheap hobby. Roughly the same as quilting (as my wife has demonstrated).

ABOUT PLANES AND SHARPENING: I bought two Wood River planes and am very happy with them. The Wood River models I have, however, have very good blades and are nowhere near the price of Lie-Nielsen's exquisite, but very pricey models.

Sharpening is not really that hard to do. You should use a honing guide (not expensive) to hold the blade or a chisel at the correct angle for sharpening. I use the sandpaper method of sharpening using strips of sandpaper of various grits held either on a 3/8ths piece of plate glass, or on a flat surface such as the table saw.

You start with a coarser grade paper (usually 320 if the blade is really dull or has a nick in it. I work up through finer and finer grits, up to 2000 grit for a final polish. I use the same method for sharpening chisels. When you sharpen this way, you will get a very slight burr at the edge that must also be polished away, and for that you use a leather strop (you can use a polishing compound on the stop if you wish). If you don't deburr , the blade will feel dull.

When you buy a plane (likely a #4 Jack plane to start), you will need to make certain the back of the blade is flat. To do this, you use whatever sharpening method you choose and lay the back of the blade flat across it (only the first inch or two on the sandpaper, that's what you have to polish dead flat). You push, pull across the sandpaper until there are no more raised areas and the finish is the same all the way across. This is the grinding step. Next, you do the same process with finer and finer grit until you have a very polished surface.

You do something similar to the bottom of the plane (take the blade out first!), paying particular attention to flattening the front edge all the way past the blade opening. If you have high spots, the low spots will show no sanding marks. Grind with coarser grit until the sanding marks are uniform all the way across. Then polish with finer grits until it gleams. It is all about keeping down pressure even as you work.

My biggest challenge comes with setting the blade and the chip breaker or cap iron just right. The chip breaker must be very close to the cutting edge of the blade--much less than one mm. The blade needs to be adjusted forward/back so it is very near the front edge of the mouth of the plane where the blade exits. Not much of the blade should show or you will find it very tough to use. My vision makes this hard to see because the blade barely shows as you look down the base of the plane when its set right.

You also have to make sure the blade is parallel to the base or you get gouging. It takes practice. What makes it worthwhile is the amazing finish on the wood when you plane rather than sand it. Planes cut across the fibers so there is a beautiful sheen to it. Sanding abrades those fibers and makes a microscopically fuzzy surface--no sheen. One reason antiques look so spectacular is that the makers used planes.

Hock tools makes special, high quality replacement blades that sharpen well.

You can make a Wooden plane yourself, there are many plans and videos online for this. Some folks prefer these, but they are not necessary. There are a couple of styles of these, most interesting to me is the Japanese style, which is much lower profile and is pulled along rather than being pushed along.

In the end, however, it is all pretty much a matter of practicing. I bought a chunk of curly maple that I practiced on until I got it down. It is getting harder to find the old planes and their prices have skyrocketed, but if you find one of the old Stanleys in a garage sale, snap it up. Even pretty rusty, they are not so hard to clean up and put to work again. But I just bought new.

This may have been more than you wanted to know, but heck, I really enjoy working with a plane now and again, especially on good (expensive) stock.
DesertRatTom is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Router Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wondering A Lock Miter Bit Jerry Bowen Tools and Woodworking 35 04-21-2014 10:32 AM
Wondering About Using A Japanese Saw Jerry Bowen Tools and Woodworking 18 03-31-2014 07:24 PM
Wondering Blade DAUTTERGUY Wood Scrolling 8 12-01-2008 09:09 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome