Micro Adjust For A Band Saw - Router Forums
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post #1 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-11-2014, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
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Default Micro Adjust For A Band Saw

From time to time I have gone on line to see if there might be a micro adjust for a Band Saw and all that I have found so far are fences that deal with "blade drift". Blade drift does not exist on a band saw that is set up as per the "Alex Snodgrass" method. What I have looked for is an adjustment for the position of the fence in relationship to the blade. I have been spoiled by my Incra LS TS system on my TS.

Just am wondering if I am alone in this pursuit and if not, has anyone come up with some way to make the fine adjusments that are often needed or at least desired when using a BS.

Jerry B.
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post #2 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-11-2014, 07:58 AM
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Kreg: https://www.kregtool.com/store/c41/r...icro-adjuster/

Made to work with the Kreg BS fence, but it's 1/4" x 20 threads so it can be adapted to work with jigs and fixtures pretty easily. I've got one on my BS fence, and another that i pull out when i'm improvising a solution to something else.

You do a preleminary set of the BS fence, with both the fence and micro adjuster locked down, then loosen the fence and move the adjuster the appropriate amount on the ruler, then re-tighten the fence. (when the BS fence is loosened, it skews a bit until it's tightened again, so i can't use the fence to blade distance to micro adjust, but the Kreg scale is good contrast (black on white, i find it easier than the Incra scales) so you may find it fairly usable with no adaptation Jerry.

I'm sure there are others out there, but i do like this one.

earl
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post #3 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-11-2014, 09:35 AM
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I think a micro-adjust or any way to accurately adjust to compensate on a bandsaw... is a good thing and makes things easier. I have to keep reminding myself that measurements on a bandsaw are not static. The zero is subjective to drift (this is meant to start further discussions saying yes or no, but read the notes below first) and therefore should need some kind of adjustment to compensate.

A bandsaw blade can move laterally. It has a flexible blade. As a hobbiest, where things change from day to day, from morning to afternoon, Things change. Once you change blades, speed or touch any of your guides in any way to make a dynamic adjustment... where that blade rides has changed. Just except that is how it is and adjust from that.

A bandsaw is not a Tablesaw or Router Table where the blade is exactly where you left it 2 weeks ago, the last time you used it. Even pushing on the workpiece differently than yesterday on the same workpiece will cause the blade to cut differently. No matter what you do, you will still have some kind of "drift" that you have to adjust for, by what the classical Physics definition of that is... It is how you compensate for that... (and other things)

We started this conversation so lets talk about it. (honestly wanting to talk about this more) So a question back might be:
What will help you be consistent on a bandsaw? I have an idea of what that is in my mind... But I'll reserve that until others have a chance.

EDIT-- We as members keep discussing this on hobbyist type bandsaws. But I don't think people understand that that for them, it isn't something that you can set one day... and be through with those adjustments from then on.
(I believe that the techniques learned from this will make you more consistent on other tooling.)

"Don't worry, I saw this work in a cartoon once."
"Usually learning skills and tooling involves a progression of logical steps."

Last edited by MAFoElffen; 10-11-2014 at 10:27 AM.
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post #4 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-11-2014, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAFoElffen View Post
But, I have to keep in mind:
Measurements on a bandsaw are not static. The zero is subjective to drift (this is meant to start further discussions saying yes or no, but read the notes below first) and therefore should need some kind of adjustment to compensate.

Notes:
A bandsaw blade can move laterally. If has a flexible blade. As a hobbiest, where things change from day to day, from morning to afternoon, Things change. Once you change blades, speed or touch any of your guides in any way to make a dynamic adjustment... where that blade rides has changed. Just except that is how it is and adjust from that.

A bandsaw is not a Tablesaw or Router Table where the blade is exactly where you left it 2 weeks ago, the last time you used it. Even pushing on the workpiece differently than yesterday on the same workpiece will cause the blade to cut differently. No matter what you do, you will still have some kind of "drift" that you have to adjust for, by what the classical Physics definition of that is... It is how you compensate for that... (and other things)

Jerry you started this conversation so lets talk about it: (honestly wanting to talk about this)
What will help you be consistent on a bandsaw? I have an idea of what that is in my mind... But I'll reserve that until others have a chance.

EDIT-- We as members keep discussing this on hobbyist type bandsaws. But I don't think people understand that that for them, it isn't something that you can set one day... and be through with those adjustments from then on.
(I believe that the techniques learned from this will make you more consistent on other tooling.)
Let's see if I can be more clear on what I would like to be able to do with the adjusting mechanism. First of all, I would not for example what to be able to to just set the fence to make a pre-determined cut, I'm talking about for example to be able to set the fence at three inches and make a cut on a workpiece that is three inches as one can do on a TS.


Lets say that I want to cut a piece two inches wide and I just estimate the setting of the the fence and after making a cut I find that I'm off 1/12" and need to move the fence closer to the blade. Now I do have a scale on the saw but I don't like it very much. I'd like to be able to just sneak up on the cut using the micro adjuster until I am getting what I'm after. That's all I am talking about. As it is, I have to just keep tapping the fence and cutting a trial cut until I get close to what I need. Pretty simple request comparted to anything near the LS concept. A simple jig with a thraded bolt of some kind that would move the fence a few thous at a time as it is slowly turned would work. Hope that clears things up. I probpably could make the jig, Just am wondering what others have done or what may be available to buy.

Jerry B.
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post #5 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-11-2014, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Jerry Bowen View Post
Lets say that I want to cut a piece two inches wide and I just estimate the setting of the the fence and after making a cut I find that I'm off 1/12" and need to move the fence closer to the blade. Now I do have a scale on the saw but I don't like it very much. I'd like to be able to just sneak up on the cut using the micro adjuster until I am getting what I'm after. That's all I am talking about. As it is, I have to just keep tapping the fence and cutting a trial cut until I get close to what I need. Pretty simple request comparted to anything near the LS concept. A simple jig with a thraded bolt of some kind that would move the fence a few thous at a time as it is slowly turned would work. Hope that clears things up. I probpably could make the jig, Just am wondering what others have done or what may be available to buy.

Jerry B.
(I thought that was were that first post was going...)
Now that is not going to happen with a bandsaw.

The physics of that is not there to make that possible. What happens is that 1/12" (0.08") is less than the thickness of the blade. That is hard enough to do with a somewhat solid blade, but a bandsaw blade is flexible. (but within 0.08" on wood is more than acceptable and can be sanded down, planed or jointed quickly for if it really need to be adjusted that small a difference.)

--> It starts cutting, the teeth touch the work on part of the teeth (the inside edge), with nothing on the outside edge. The flexible blade moves away from the resistance... The blade starts drifting and twisting away from the workpiece.

You can see the plot of what follows happening right? You can't make a few thousandths correction on a bandsaw for an edge cut trimming. That is hard enough and you still get some deflection with a circular saw blade trying to do that.

For larger adjustments, what you can do is to start (scribe with the running blade) the start of your cut very lightly (just eenough to see where it hits)... seeing that with the running blade, if off, that you need to compensate somehow, use something such as a micro-adjust to make your compensation... to correct where your cut should be. Otherwise, you need some way to make that adjustment for that compensation, from where you were, to where you think you need to be. That is why a micro-adjuster on a bandsaw does not need fine threads. Thousandths of an inch corrections are a moot point with a flexible blade.

There are other factors (your posts on bandsaws in the last few months prompt some other things that go along with this and those). Would you like to talk about them also?

"Don't worry, I saw this work in a cartoon once."
"Usually learning skills and tooling involves a progression of logical steps."

Last edited by MAFoElffen; 10-11-2014 at 12:06 PM.
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post #6 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-12-2014, 06:36 AM
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It is totally unrealistic to expect to get that degree of accuracy from a bandsaw. Look to your table saw and router table for this type of result.

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post #7 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-12-2014, 07:41 AM Thread Starter
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It is totally unrealistic to expect to get that degree of accuracy from a bandsaw. Look to your table saw and router table for this type of result.

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I'm not trying to be a SnER A, but I do think that it is extremely realistic to want to have the accuracy that I have asked about, and is a very realistic expectation, or at least a wish, otherwise I would not have asked, however, I do agree and understand that what you and Mike have said that attaining that level of accuracy is indeed unrealistic the for reasons described.

How ever, if one were to make several cuts with the fence in the same position to see what the variation in the cuts is due to the way a band saw blade is deflected, then have an adjustment that would work within that the range of the variation seems to me to be practical. For example, let's suppose that after making several cuts that it is determined that the variation is .050". I don't know what the variation is right now as I have done the test. But I'm thinking is that it would be nice to be able to set the fence so that a person would know that the cut would be within those tolerances with the first cut..

I have not, for some reason, attempted to use the scale on the saw. Part of the reason for this is that with the re-saw fence installed the scale cannot be zeroed and one would have to deal with the off set error all of the time or remove the re-saw fence. I need to do some checking on the accuracy of that scale.

In my own defense, I do believe that asking questions and digesting the answers to the questions leads to one's knowledge and one's approach to dealing with issues and being able to wring out, in this case the BS, the very most that one can get from a machine.

To just say "hey bud what you are asking is unreasonable" while true, just challenges me to do reseach on the matter and see what is possible and to be able to work within the limits of the BS.

Recently I logged off of the forum and was asked why by one of the monerators why I had done so. My answer was that I felt that that I was asking to many dumb questions but after some re-thinking of the issue and missing reading the theads and posts, I have come back on and will just coniue to ask my question which do often make me look some what ignorance which I certainly am, but ignorance is the same as stupid of course and I have to keep reminding myself of that.

I do appreciate the posts to my questions, that's what makes the forum so great.

Jerry B.
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post #8 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-12-2014, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Jerry Bowen View Post
For example, let's suppose that after making several cuts that it is determined that the variation is .050". I don't know what the variation is right now as I have done the test. But I'm thinking is that it would be nice to be able to set the fence so that a person would know that the cut would be within those tolerances with the first cut..
With metal, tolerances that close are possible, even desirable. With wood, it ain't happening. And, even if it did happen, wood moves, metal doesn't.

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post #9 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-12-2014, 08:42 AM Thread Starter
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With metal, tolerances that close are possible, even desirable. With wood, it ain't happening. And, even if it did happen, wood moves, metal doesn't.
On the contrary, metal moves to, but nearly to the extent as wood does. Wood moves not only from changes in temperature, but also humidity, I think that it is only termperature that changes metal. Theo, I know that I'm nit picking, bear with me.

Jerry
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post #10 of 52 (permalink) Old 10-12-2014, 09:18 AM
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Jerry, I think your question is valid, and I think it is possible to expect a given tolerance for re-sawing a given species of wood. I have found that re-sawing pine is harder to set the blade at 1/4" when re-sawing a 3-1/2" x 10" and have it come out at 1/4"+.030" so I can plane it to finish size. I also found that re-sawing hard maple to that tolerance IS possible and it accually slices easier and faster and is repeatable. I found that a steady feed from beginning to end of the cut is needed and constant contact with the fence is needed while feeding. I use a push block made from a 2X4 about 12" long with a rear lip attached that extends about 1/4" (similar to a table saw push block) to keep fence pressure while pushing the wood thru the blade. I have measured the results and found and expect variance of about .030" using an olson 4 tpi hook tooth 1/2" blade. I don't have a fancy fence, just a fence made from laminated flooring scraps that I clamp to the table. One thing I found to help is to wax the table and fence with beez wax. I don't think I could keep those tolerances on a long board unless a longer fence was used. If a micro adjuster is available I would try it! Good luck.
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