SawStop Lawsuit..... - Router Forums
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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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Default SawStop Lawsuit.....

SawStop wins Supreme Court action in antitrust suit against Black & Decker | Woodworking Network

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If only new layers hadn't been added....

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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 07:29 PM
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Stick I just don't know what to say. For it to go to the supreme court they both must have had good arguments.

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post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 07:56 PM
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Don't read too much into the decision. As I read it, the matter at hand is SawStop's antitrust suit against Black and Decker and other companies. The defendants previously had an unfavorable ruling from the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals Here's the holding:

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SD3, LLC and its subsidiary, SawStop, LLC (together, "SawStop"), contend that several major table-saw manufacturers conspired to boycott SawStop's safety technology and corrupt a private safety-standard-setting process, all with the aim of keeping that technology off the market. Consequently, SawStop sued nearly two dozen saw manufacturers and affiliated entities, alleging that they violated § 1 of the Sherman Antitrust Act, 15 U.S.C. § 1. The district court dismissed SawStop's amended complaint based on, among other things, its belief that SawStop had failed to plead facts establishing an unlawful agreement. See SD3, LLC v. Black & Decker (U.S.), Inc., No. 11:14-cv-191, 2014 WL 3500674 (E.D. Va. July 15, 2014). SawStop appealed.

We agree with the district court that several parts of SawStop's case cannot go forward. SawStop's complaint does not plausibly allege any conspiracy to manipulate safety standards, so we affirm the district court's decision to dismiss SawStop's claims concerning standard-setting. Likewise, the complaint fails to allege any facts at all against several corporate parents and affiliates, so we affirm the district court's decision to dismiss all claims against those defendants.

But as to the remaining defendants, SawStop has alleged enough to suggest a plausible agreement to engage in a group boycott. Although that claim may not prove ultimately successful at trial, or even survive summary judgment, the complaint offers enough to survive the defendants' motion to dismiss. "[A] well-pleaded complaint may proceed even if it strikes a savvy judge that actual proof of those facts is improbable, and that a recovery is very remote and unlikely." Thus, we vacate the district court's decision dismissing SawStop's group-boycott claim and remand for further proceedings. Emphasis added.
Black and Decker petitioned the Supreme Court for certiorari (to hear the case.) The Supreme Court said, "no". This case is not to be confused with the patent cases that have been filed. I did about 5 minutes of research, so I am perfectly fine to stand corrected if I missed part of the case.

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post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
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Stick I just don't know what to say. For it to go to the supreme court they both must have had good arguments.
I read it a SS wants their technology mandated....
and to discourage everyone else from introducing any thing...
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This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-04-2016, 12:36 AM
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Bosch has far deeper pockets than SawStop, and their technology is not destructive, which makes it superior, as well as having twin cartridges. Serves SawStop right for trying to "Micro$oft" us by forcing a standard that was exclusively theirs. Legal thuggery should not be rewarded. However good SawStop products may be, all technologies are soon outdated and if Bosch is smart, it will freely license its safety technology to every other saw maker, particularly those who produce shop style machines. It will make Bosch even more of a hero to woodworkers and tradesmen everywhere. Screw SawStop.

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post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-04-2016, 02:05 AM Thread Starter
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deep down SawStop has never been about us woodworkers. They have continuously sued other manufacturers because they wouldn't utilize their technology when thy came up w/ their own which is often better like Bosch's approach...

It's all about GREED...
and look is trying to form a monopoly...

This would have been the week that I'd have finished chewing thru the restraints...
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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-04-2016, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patlaw View Post
Don't read too much into the decision. As I read it, the matter at hand is SawStop's antitrust suit against Black and Decker and other companies. The defendants previously had an unfavorable ruling from the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals Here's the holding:



Black and Decker petitioned the Supreme Court for certiorari (to hear the case.) The Supreme Court said, "no". This case is not to be confused with the patent cases that have been filed. I did about 5 minutes of research, so I am perfectly fine to stand corrected if I missed part of the case.
@patlaw

So, Mike, the suit it just for anti trust collusion? If Saw Stop wins what is the ultimate outcome? Does SS just win their point, reap financial gain from lost sales, or force their system onto the market?

I understand that there are several different things on the docket; patent infringement, anti-trust, safety legislation, et. al. Since reporters rarely do any research anymore to verify facts and accurately report the issues, it is very difficult to understand the intricacies of where all of this is potentially going in respect to the consumer.

As a former safety professional I applaud SS development of the system. As a consumer I hate them for their marketing of a destructive and expensive system, as well as their attempt to monopolize the market. Forcing others to come to the "dark side" as Desert Rat Tom aptly put it, is "thuggery".

I really like the new Bosch system. It it non-destructive, more cost effective, and appears to be easier to use.

Now, if they would only put it into a cabinet saw...

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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-04-2016, 10:29 AM
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You can patent a method, but not an idea. And patents expire after 20 years, or somewhere around 2021 through 2023. SawStop sued Bosch in 2015, so the battle is on. SawStop owns about 100 patents, so they are mired in lawsuits. This suit seems to be about a claim that the other manufacturers conspired to say no to incorporation of SawStop features, which may be pretty tough to prove since SawStop tried to do this through intimidation and legislation, so it was in those firms' self interest to oppose what they saw as predatory behavior. See a shark? Stay away from it. None of this has anything to do with quality of SawStop products, which, like Apple's propriety technology, seems to be just fine. I'll place my bet on Bosch winning this one in the long run.
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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-04-2016, 11:38 AM
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@patlaw

So, Mike, the suit it just for anti trust collusion? If Saw Stop wins what is the ultimate outcome? Does SS just win their point, reap financial gain from lost sales, or force their system onto the market?

I understand that there are several different things on the docket; patent infringement, anti-trust, safety legislation, et. al. Since reporters rarely do any research anymore to verify facts and accurately report the issues, it is very difficult to understand the intricacies of where all of this is potentially going in respect to the consumer.

As a former safety professional I applaud SS development of the system. As a consumer I hate them for their marketing of a destructive and expensive system, as well as their attempt to monopolize the market. Forcing others to come to the "dark side" as Desert Rat Tom aptly put it, is "thuggery".

I really like the new Bosch system. It it non-destructive, more cost effective, and appears to be easier to use.

Now, if they would only put it into a cabinet saw...
Bill, I have not read a lot about this case, but what I read seemed pretty clear that this case is only about an antitrust claim. If SS wins, they'll probably get money damages. They still have to win the patent infringement cases, which most people predict will take years.

If SS can establish that everyone "conspired" against them, that's a valid claim. The language from the court seems to suggest that they have an uphill battle, but at least they get their day in court.
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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-04-2016, 04:51 PM
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Ass best I can remember one of the principals was an attorney. Not to paint all lawyers with a broad brush but that would explain the rash of law suits SS has brought. Great idea, bad company. Given that Bosch has their own cadre of attorneys I would think that there would be enough difference to their technology to refute any patent claims SS can make.
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