Dust Collection on a Miter Saw Station - Page 2 - Router Forums
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-16-2019, 07:02 PM
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If the DC had a hose going directly to the collection bag that is normally found on the Dewalt miter saw, would this not get a lot more than normal seeing as it’s suckimg air from there?
Have the hose split , one going directly to the saw, and the other to that catch basin .

Btw, Awesome looking miter saw station Steve

This machines broken
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-16-2019, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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That's beginning to look like the best bet. At least it will help a lot in cleanup.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-16-2019, 07:59 PM
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Forgot to mention that I also found a cutting technique that tends to throw the sawdust back into the collector. It is to make a light, scoring cut as you pull the saw toward you, then complete the cut on the back stroke. The score creates a slight channel that directs the sawdust back. This has helped a lot. I don't have space for a saw station.

The more I do, the less I accomplish.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-16-2019, 08:39 PM
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I don't (yet) have a miter saw, but I have studied the various methods of dc. So far, this video shows the best I've seen.

I understand those that advocate for a large-area box to collect the sawdust after it's ejected past the saw, but that still leaves a lot of airborne nigh-invisible particles to breathe.

Stopping the sawdust at the closest point to the cut is the best and this video shows how this fellow did it quite simply.

This would be the method I would try. It's simple, easy to adapt to many saws, and doesn't require over-engineering as is very common in woodworking.


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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-17-2019, 08:32 AM
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At the expense of boring those of you who already know all this, thought I would throw in my
$ 0.02 worth of useless info.

In my not unsubstantial and varied readings and studies of air, oil and coolant flow pertaining to making my hot rodded Mustang faster and more reliable at the road course, there are many automotive systems that parallel dust collection. This includes cylinder head, intake and exhaust performance, aerodynamics (to do with generating downforce (or at least reducing/eliminating lift), coolant and oil flow inside the engine and within the cooling systems like coolers, radiators; braking system performance and air flow to cool them (duct work) etc etc.

When viewing the entire dust collection / shop vac / cyclonic scenarios and the difference between dust collector and vacuum cleaners, here are a few points I would like to mention:

The suction difference between the two systems makes a huge impact on the effectiveness (our only real concern being that it works) and efficiency of whatever it is we cobble together; flow potential and pressure vs volume..............that is the crux.

Elbow radius and neck down dimensions and curve design radically affect flow, as does the diameter and shape of the pipe / hose....smooth is good - ribbed is not. Insie outsie or outsie insie conncetions - think of the flow of air and the dust floating in the liquid.......yes Grasshopper..... air is a liquid.

Because dust collectors have very low pressure differential (suction) they require much greater unrestricted CFM of airflow. Going from a 4" to a 5" or 6" pipe on a D/C radically improves the performance over long runs - think HVAC systems with your furnace and a/c. This is why real dust collectors don't use bags - they may flow a ton for the first minute, but once they are full of dust, the outlet side of the D/C is restricted - meaning you can run sewer pipe, and your D/C system will still (not) suck......lol...see what I did there?

Here is my practical inclination to most of these highly complex problems and challenges.....without renting a wind tunnel (altho that is possible @ $2500/hr), doing your best on minimizing the compromises (like using Y adaptors not T fittings for example).

I figured that air flow can be controlled via waste gates - lots of times, less suction and more flow will actually pickup more of the dust - think air inlet on a router enclosure - not only from the top, but usually clean air to also draw across the router motor (to keep it cool) and to essentially create a main flow (river) of air the will then pull the additional air (and dust) along its path. Pls see Gr 3 level pic attached.

Reduce restrictions (on both sides of the pump; inlet and outlet; just like a cars engine) and reduce turbulence and you improve efficiency...........works on everything from air intakes, cylinder head flow, engine cooling and oiling systems, making your F1 car faster.......and improving your D/C effectiveness.

The challenge is to maximize the workings of whatever setup we are stuck with due to the various insurmountable factors - sooooo...... think about adjustability/variability to see what works best FOR YOUR SETUP.


Hoping this gets everyone thinking a little bit. Gotta say, I really enjoy being a (virgin) member on this forum, so much knowledge and skill set as well as friendly faces and comments.
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-17-2019, 09:43 AM
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Great topic, Steve...

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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-17-2019, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgcz75b View Post

I understand those that advocate for a large-area box to collect the sawdust after it's ejected past the saw, but that still leaves a lot of airborne nigh-invisible particles to breathe.
It's true that the big box design doesn't prevent particles from being thrown including fine particles but because of the mass differences due to the particle size only the heavier can actually reach "escape velocity". The invisible ones that are really harmful are also practically mass less. This means that once thrown they can't travel very far before they slow down to almost a standstill. A good analogy to what happens is when you throw a balloon compared to throwing a baseball. The pickup in the box is creating a wide low pressure zone that causes air in the room to move towards it. This would carry all the fine particles with it since they haven't moved far away from the saw. Just like one of those ceiling hung air filters will help clear a room, the big box will do the same thing so the one thing they should be good at is removing fine particles. Not to say that there are better solutions than just the big box.

Someone I consider a master woodworker once told me that a master woodworker is not someone who never makes mistakes. He is someone who is able to cover them up so that no one can tell.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-17-2019, 12:23 PM
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I saw a youtube demo where after a box type dc was used for the first time in the day. The lights were turned off and side-lighting was used. It looked like Hiroshima with fall-out.

If you have a big-box as your miter saw dc, try it for yourself. The larger particles aren't the problem; it's the almost imperceptible particles that linger and you breathe.

I'm not saying the box doesn't work; I'm saying it doesn't work well.

"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." Christopher Hitchens

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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-17-2019, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
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I think one of the main takeaways here is that unless you're using an isolation chamber it's wise to use a mask regardless when doing such operations. Simply having a fine particle collection hung system and a DC isn't sufficient. My concern was and still is dealing with the majority of the sawdust and I think that's going to be the best it can be with this setup. The video link posted does well on a chop saw but maybe not as well on a compound miter saw where sliding action comes into play. If I were starting from scratch, and it's way too late for that, I'd build a containment system that could be mounted to the saw itself so that regardless of angle it would still be in the same fixed position. It would be mounted to the saw and not the station itself. Makes sense in my head......but that's not always a good place to work things out. At this point I simply don't have the room behind the saw to try that out. Moving that 5 cabinet assembly would be a major multi-person task and I simply don't have those resources.

The two opposing 4" ports should provide plenty of volume. One thing of note is I had my Shopsmith setup with the disk sander and took the 4" hood connected to the 4" hose on the CV1800 and although it did pick up some of the sawdust the very fine was certainly airborne. Both under and around the Shopsmith required vacuuming after sanding with the 60 grit paper. I think a smaller sized hood closer to the sander would have been a better solution. The hood was maybe 8" away. A smaller 4" diameter directed flared shaped coupling style fitting may have been a better collector and having someone direct it while sanding was being done likely even better. I tried what I had seen with some lathe operators but then again, like the miter saw, I think the intent was to capture as much as possible.
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-17-2019, 10:15 PM
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This is an interesting thread. I enjoyed the guys uTube on his home made rubber collector around the miter saw. I bet it was exciting when the blade caught the rubber shroud!

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