Router Forums banner
Cancel
Create thread New Forums

Router Insert for a Ridgid R4510 Table Saw

Jump to Latest
122K views 133 replies 23 participants last post by  mrmagloo  
#1 ·
I've had my new saw a week now and I've decided to use the space that opens up when the table is extended for a router table insert. I've checked clearances and I think some 3/4" aluminium angle, carefully cut to fit the inner groove of the rails should support the insert and leave enough room for a standard router plate from Grizzly. (Thanks Jigs). Only problem is the plates are on back-order and won't come in till June 1.

In the mean time I'll work on getting the fence mod going. I have a preliminary design I've thrown together on Google Sketchup. The large silver extrusion is the table saw fence. The white one is Incra's T-track Plus (probably will use two to get measurement on both ends). The brown is 1/2" and 3/4" MDF. If any one sees any glaring mistakes please let me know.

GCG
 

Attachments

#2 ·
I thought a couple of exploded views might be useful.

Oh, and I closed up the ends and added center support in the spacer boxes.

GCG
 

Attachments

#3 ·
One more of the whole concept.

GCG
 

Attachments

C
#4 ·
Some thoughts for you to consider

One question I have is how will you get bolts/nuts into and out of the slots for auxiliary fences? It appears you have a hole for a chip/dust collector which is excellent. I would also have some auxiliary jig slots along the top for flexibility of adding jig parts that may require different positioning to augment and assist the t-slots. I would also consider a t-slot at the very top facing up to gain more jig and stops design flexibility. On ting you appear to be doing wisely is making the fence taller. I have had to add a tall fence auxiliary jig to my commercial fence that permits me to do spline and mortising on things like picture frames and legs which are tall, sometimes held at an angle, and need vertical support.
I hope these comments help.
 
#6 ·
Clyde_WoodBee said:
One question I have is how will you get bolts/nuts into and out of the slots for auxiliary fences?
Click to expand...
If you're asking how the aux is held to the primary I'll have three flat head screws accessible from the center in the back of the center chamber and strategically placed behind the outer slot on either end of the face. I'll have to slide the aux onto the primary from the end. I hope that's what you were asking.

Clyde_WoodBee said:
It appears you have a hole for a chip/dust collector which is excellent. I would also have some auxiliary jig slots along the top for flexibility of adding jig parts that may require different positioning to augment and assist the t-slots. I would also consider a t-slot at the very top facing up to gain more jig and stops design flexibility.
Click to expand...
Funds. It's all about the money. Mine is limited. I do what I can with what I've got. I'd love to do more but then there'd be the med bills when my wife beans me with that cast iron frying pan.

Clyde_WoodBee said:
On ting you appear to be doing wisely is making the fence taller. I have had to add a tall fence auxiliary jig to my commercial fence that permits me to do spline and mortising on things like picture frames and legs which are tall, sometimes held at an angle, and need vertical support.
Click to expand...
I like the height, too. That was intentional.

Clyde_WoodBee said:
I hope these comments help.
Click to expand...
All comment are very welcome.
Clyde_WoodBee said:
I noticed in this drawing the double t-slot has one slot buried and not useable. Is this because of the pieces you have or am I missing something about how you might use the inward turned lower t-slot?
Click to expand...
Its how the Incra TTrackPlus is made. There's a scale on the front of the back facing slot that I don't show in the sketch.

Thanks for the response.

GCG
 
#7 · (Edited)
Clyde,

I took one of your suggestions and put the TTrack Plus on the top and replaced it with a standard track. I made the support boxes shallower and added support on the top across the top of the saw fence. Then I dropped in some fasteners for clarity. I've shifted the positions of the slide-able sections to show the fasteners that would otherwise be hidden.

GCG

Addendum: The 1/4-20 screws that the aux fence sections ride on will be in threaded inserts (I have some from a previous project). That's why I'm not going to use track there. Should have been clearer on that.
 

Attachments

#8 ·
Added the Saw table for some context.

First pic: full layout with the fence at the right most position allowable.
Second pic: Fence, TTrack, and Plate removed to show the cutouts in the top (3/4 Melamine).
Third pic: Top removed to show the 1/2 MDF base inside the frame sections.

GCG
 

Attachments

J
#10 · (Edited)
:stop:It looked good to me until I got to this the first pic. The way you have it set up you will have to work over the long (left) end of the saw. You need to set it up so the fence is between the router position and the saw blade position so your routing work area is off the right end of the saw. Actually the fence itself is fine I just am hoping you are planning on mounting it on the other side of the saw fence than what you are showing
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#9 ·
Over 160 views and no one is warning me off so I guess I can move forward.

Two dimension drawings
1. Aluminum angle detail
2. Top and base detail

GCG
 

Attachments

C
#50 ·
I have just realized that you are using aluminum square angle (90 degrees) in order to make a kind of bedframe for your table insert.

Yesterday, I thought the first part on the picture was showing a piece of MDF or wood that was carfully cut to fit snugly INTO the groove on each side. I was like "how the heck can I bend, pry or rotate it to make it go into the groove..." Now I get it.

I guess the four aluminum squares (or maybe even more?) are permanent? They probably won't interfere with any existing feature on the table?

Thanks my friend
 
#11 ·
Had my head locked into the saw operating position. Need to open up with my thinking.

Lucky for me they're both reversible. The saw fence has a symmetrical t-slot layout so the the router fence addition (also symmetrical) can go on either side. The insert is basically a 10.25x21 inch rectangular table leaf that rides on the table rail grooves so it can go either way too.

New pic. ... Better?

The only inconvenience will be that the lock for the fence is on the near side and if I'm feeding safely from the far side, I'll have to walk around to make adjustments. No biggie, just an observation.

GCG
 

Attachments

#13 ·
Comments can only help. Glad to hear any you may have.

I've been knockin' around the idea of attaching some self adhesive felt to the underside of the angle sections that will ride on the table rails. I don't want to mar them and take the chance of compromising what is now a smooth operating slide.

I've also got the safety power switch duplex outlet that is currently on the Wolfcraft table I'm using till I complete this. I should be able to retrofit it to the insert.

GCG
 
A
#15 ·
I have the ridgid ts3650 with the same fence and this is what I did for a fence for my router insert in my table saw.



I made mine taller due to the fact I was doing alot of taller pieces and also for the ability to put a feather board from the top.

I had been using this fence for about 3 years but it had alot of short comings that I think I took care of in the above design.
 
A
#17 ·
The second fence came about cause my wife heard me complaining about having to reset the fence between the router and the saw for this one job I needed to do so she surprised me with another fence she ordered from Ridgid.

The digital fence was also on my wish list that my wife got me for my birthday. It's a wixey and it's been wonderful!
 
#18 ·
Your wife is a definite keeper.

GCG
 
#19 · (Edited)
Little by Little ...

Got the angle cut and fit. The long 3/4 x 3/4 run lengthwise along the sides of the table sections and act as ledgers and the shorter 3/4 x 1/2 pieces are cross members to support the insert. The cross members will be attache to the insert and I'll drill and tap the ledgers at the cross points to use jacking screws to level the insert to the table. The two middle cross members will be cut to fit the plate opening once I've got the plate in.


GCG
 

Attachments

#20 ·
Gettin' there

After some distractions I finally got back to the insert project. I've finished the insert and as far as the final product is concerned I'm very happy. Here's a shot from my phone.

Image
[/url] Saw table Router insert complete by pat w1, on Flickr[/IMG]

and underneath with the Bosch 1617,

Image
[/url] Saw table Router insert complete below2 by pat w1, on Flickr[/IMG]

You can see the four leveling screws at the corners. I need to cut them down if for nothing else aesthetics. I may or may not try to retrofit the safety switch from the original table. I could just set it up as a utility table to the side and plug the router and shop-vac to it as is. It'll still be handy enough for a safety.

I had some play in the guides I used to route the recess for the router plate which resulted in a plate that shifted between 1/16 and 1/32 in both axes. To correct this I made a paste with sander dust and glue with a consistency about like thick peanut butter. I laid in some along the back (away from the t-track) and left side. I laid down some wax paper and then set the plate in. After it set up overnight I cleared away the excess with a chisel. Now there is no noticeable play at all.

I've delayed the fence. I've been working on getting some reclaimed red oak and I delivered a load to a local mill yesterday. It was 11 distressed 6x8 10' ties. The guy at the mill will cut it down for me for half the lumber, fair enough. As soon as I get it back (he said probably Tuesday) I'll start work on the fence.

GCG
 
#21 ·
Got the oak. There's a pic Here

The problem is now I've been tapped at work to cover one of the shifts till a couple of guys recover from injuries. It never fails.


GCG
 
#22 ·
On my last day of 12 on 12 off this week. Going on 5 days of 10 hr. nights starting Monday. Good news is I get overtime (normally straight salary) so I may get my planer ahead of schedule.

I bought some 3/4 ply to make a sled to face and plane some of the oak to make the fence. Has anyone used the method used by the Wood Whisperer in this vid.

How to Flatten a Workbench and Wide Boards with a Router | The Wood Whisperer

I'm going to try it this weekend and I was wondering if anyone had any additional pointers.

GCG
 
#24 ·
The method in that video? Well... I've seen it, but I think how he builds his jig is overkill. It's really a lot simpler than that. I'll give you 2 methods.

For tonight google router dado jig... All I use for planing is 2 boards to go across and to provide a platform for the router. The two boards I space 1 1/2" between, which lets me put my bit through it. First one I did, I made it for a 3/4" bit to use with a template bushing. I then got a wider bit and just routed through it. I have two short boards that I nail under the ends of those. They ride on the outside of the rails (mentioned later). Then I tack on 2 narrow boards that will guide the router between them. This was easier than the template guide.


The rails I mentioned above- Mine took 4 pieces, 3/4"x2"x60". If you look at the piece, I glued and nailed 2 of them together with one backed to the side of the other's corner, 90 degrees. Then I screw it down to a piece of plywood. The ally in the picture is 12"x60".

I secure it with 3/4 scrap blocks and 2 wedges. I put the blocks between the work and the rail, tighten with the wedges. If I'm doing stock down to 3/4", I use the 1/2 plywood blocks to raise the stock so that the 3/4 blocks will hold it without me routing them.

I use the same rails for wider stock on a sheet of plywood or clamped to work, using a wider dado jig. I can turn it to get different heights.

Uses the same router action as in that video. If I have stock longer, I route, stop, move it down, route more. Longest I've done was a 4"x24"x10' maple burl for a bar top.

Second way is the router sled they use on this forum. harrysin has a video showing it. It is a piece of plywood or mdf on each side (standing straight up) with 2 rods between them (in slots for adjustment) which go through the router's edge guard holes/slots in the base. So the router slides back and forth on the rods.

Clamping the work is different. He screws down blocks against the work, then wedges it.

I built a sled. It works. I'm used to the other way and it works for me, for what I do.
 

Attachments

Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#23 ·
Well, it looks like the planer will be mine this weekend. As I hoped the overtime covering for the injured shift guys will pay for it easily and I get to lay the coin on Home Depot Saturday. I get off this shift at 3:00 am Saturday morning and don't start the next shift till 7:00 am Wednesday so I should get a lot done. (The boss is going for a girls retreat to Destin Sunday so I'll be free to do as much as I want)

I've got the red oak for the fence. I'd like to stain it darker and approach a look to the wood similar to this one on Pat Warner's site:

Image


I'm nowhere near his skill level but still I'm pushing for the clean crisp look of his work so the finish needs to be light with very little buildup. Suggestions?

GCG
 
#25 ·
Mike,

Thanks for the info. I had an idea someone would have simplified some of it.

Actually, I had finished the sled portion and was going to work on the rest this weekend. However now that I'm getting my planer I'm going to focus on a planer sled similar (hopfully simpler) to this one.
A Planer Sled for Milling Lumber - Fine Woodworking Video

In any event I'll have the sled if I ever get a piece too wide for the planer.

GCG
 
J
#26 ·
Hi GCG,

My build for a Bosch TS is not going so well, so I'm starting from scratch. Main problem has been to get the table top flat, but then what is flat enough? My first attempt used a single piece of 3/4 play. screwed to a frame. Thought the frame would pull it flat, it did'nt... Second attempt used two pieces of 3/4 ply (with the bow outward facing) glued and screwed together. Still not flat, but at least now its bowed rather than cupped, which should be easier to fix once the plate goes in.

Questions about your design. I used a design that would allow me to drop the insert in from the top, without having to unscrew the TS extension. Your design would work on my saw as well, if I unscrew the extension. I tried to avoid this, but found last night that its easily accomplished. So I'm going to give your approach a try. How did you join the aluminium angles? Can you also give more details on the leveling screws please? I live in Hawaii (read wet), and I worry about the melamine top swelling on me. Do you have any thoughts on this?
 
#27 ·
JollyRoger said:
Questions about your design. I used a design that would allow me to drop the insert in from the top, without having to unscrew the TS extension. Your design would work on my saw as well, if I unscrew the extension. I tried to avoid this, but found last night that its easily accomplished. So I'm going to give your approach a try.
Click to expand...
On the Ridgid TS the table rails have a 1/2" slot on the inside both front and back. I checked and the Bosch has a slot in the back rail but I couldn't find a photo that showed the back view with the table extended. The side angles are cut on the ends to fit the slots and simply laid into the slots loosely. The end angles are attached to the end of the insert with screws insuring the ends that overlap the side angles are clear.

JollyRoger said:
How did you join the aluminium angles?
Click to expand...
I didn't. The side angles are placed into the table rail slots and the insert is lowered onto them and is free floating.

JollyRoger said:
Can you also give more details on the leveling screws please?
Click to expand...
Holes were drilled and tapped into the side rails for 1/4-20 screws at the point where the end angles rest on the side angles. Adjusting these gives me all the adjustment I need.

JollyRoger said:
I live in Hawaii (read wet), and I worry about the melamine top swelling on me. Do you have any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
The melamine laminate should be enough for the surfaces it covers. Some waterproof poly finish over the exposed substrate (Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane perhaps) should keep the moisture out.

GCG
 
#28 ·
I bought the planer (I've learned I really like having a planer) and I've dimensioned the oak pieces for the fence. I'm still working out the assembly order for a clean look with as few fasteners showing as possible. I'll be using a brad nailer (the Wife got me a HF nailer and a pancake compressor for Father's day) and glue for the permanent portions of the assembly.

I know this is taking a while but between work, life interruptions, and the fact that my garage is a sweltering sweatbox in the gulf coast heat (with or without the door open); it slow going.

Stay tuned.

GCG
 
#30 ·
Well, the oak sat for the four days I was on 12's at work and half the pieces cupped or twisted (I can hear some of you snickering). No way I can hope for accuracy with a twisted, warped fence so I'll have to go back to my original plan of using MDF.

Can't work now because we're directly under a thunderstorm. More tomorrow.

GCG
 
J
#31 ·
Hi Pat,

I have made some progress in adapting your design to the Bosch, and it's going great. In fact there is very little adaption needed. Unfortunately my top (two layers of ply glued and screwed) warped... So yeah... Getting a bit frustrated...

I was wondering whether you would mind if I amended my drawings for the Bosch insert and posted them under your post. That way I could close off the post I started and tell folks that it's a crap design and that they should rather use your approach.
 
#32 ·
Sorry I missed your post. I was on a night rotation at work and, although I've been active on the board, I didn't notice it.

Feel free to add your Bosch drawings. The two saws are very similar and your contribution would open the concept up to a broader audience.

GCG
 
#33 ·
Patrick-

Been following this from the start, I saw you grow it from your thoughts, plans, into the creation of your wonderful router wing extension...

Last I heard, you got your free oak milled externally, settling on half of the BF to cover the milling cost. Then you worked your long shift hours that helped buy a thicknesser/planer (score). Planed what you had. Worked more long hours. Lost all to cupping and twisting (stored stacked with shims? I know high humidity there).

I that point I was feeling it for you! :cray: I could see you had high hopes for that. Nothing salvagable from that batch at all?

Then you talked about making from MDF... Where are you at with that? I understand you work long continuous hours for days on end.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#34 · (Edited)
MAFoElffen said:
Patrick-

Been following this from the start, I saw you grow it from your thoughts, plans, into the creation of your wonderful router wing extension...

Last I heard, you got your free oak milled externally, settling on half of the BF to cover the milling cost. Then you worked your long shift hours that helped buy a thicknesser/planer (score). Planed what you had. Worked more long hours. Lost all to cupping and twisting (stored stacked with shims? I know high humidity there).

I that point I was feeling it for you! :cray: I could see you had high hopes for that. Nothing salvagable from that batch at all?
Click to expand...
Not stored with shims, so I guess I asked for it. Some was OK but I was worried the remaining pieces might move later. I need this to be accurate. I'll find a use for it somewhere and I have more to go with it.

MAFoElffen said:
Then you talked about making from MDF... Where are you at with that? I understand you work long continuous hours for days on end.
Click to expand...
It wasn't continuous it was a rotating shift; a run of 12hr days 7am to 7pm with a short break to acclimate then a run of 10hr nights 5pm to 3am. It was switching that wiped me out. It was all I could do to get my sleeping schedule settled during the break, much less get anything done.

But I got a reprieve. The plant got ahead of the contract and cut out Saturdays. That allowed the maintenance dept. to go to two crews which meant they had enough PLC trained people to cover.

Sooo...

I got everything cut this weekend and got a comp day tomorrow to do the assembly. (Actually is because the cable guy is coming to fix a problem but I can work while I wait)
:dance3:

Image
[/url] Router fence preped parts by pat w1, on Flickr[/IMG]

GCG
 
#35 · (Edited)
Good News, Bad News, and Good News

First the good news I've ALMOST completed the fence (see images below).

Now the bad news - the guy that was coming back off the injured list had his PT extended and that means I'm back on the shift rotation so I'm on nights (5:00PM - 3:00AM) this week.

And that leads to some good news - overtime $$$.

I got the major assembly done. I need to buy a full set of 4 screws for the sliders and drill for the knobs that will secure the horizontal support to the top of the TS fence. I checked for square and using the cheap little protractor I have I'm seeing a little less than 10 minutes out of perpendicular which is identical to what I got with just the TS fence face so I'm happy with that.

Lining up the face screws with the nuts in the t-tracks is a little touchy but that should improve with some practice. Sliding it on with the nuts attached is a total PITA as the nuts want to rotate out of alignment just as they are entering the channel.

Overall I'm happy. Just a few loose ends to clean up and wipe on a few coats of 50/50 poly/mineral spirits and a little wax on the moving parts and I'm FINALLY finished.


Thanks for the encouragement and being patient.

GCG
 

Attachments

J
#36 ·
GulfcoastGuy said:
Lining up the face screws with the nuts in the t-tracks is a little touchy but that should improve with some practice. Sliding it on with the nuts attached is a total PITA as the nuts want to rotate out of alignment just as they are entering the channel.

GCG
Click to expand...
Hi Patrick - I had that problem with the setup I did on my table saw fence. I got some oval t-nuts that solved the problem.
These are the ones I use.
Woodhaven 5760 1/4-20 Oval Nuts : Oval Nuts & Screws
No barrel so there are only a couple of threads in them but that's really all you need.
Peachtree has some with a barrel but the barrel was a little long and needed to be ground down. They are oval so they align themselves in the track.:)
 

Attachments

Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#38 ·
Bought a $2 poly binder from Office Depot and cut out some spacers for edge jointing.

Image


Image
[/url] IMAG0143 by pat w1, on Flickr[/IMG]

They mic'd out at .018" just over 1/64th" each.

GCG
 
Router Forums
posts
759K
members
137K
Since
2004
A forum community dedicated to router and woodworking professionals and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about different types of routing and routers, shop safety, finishing, woodworking related topics, styles, tools, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
New Member Introductions Tools and Woodworking General Routing Table-mounted Routing Show N' Tell