Ralph, all of the routers you mentioned are popular and all require that you blow the dust out of them/clean them on a regular basis for the best results. I have a 7518, 2 1617's and 2 MR23's; I am pleased with all of them. You will find that the 15 amp rating works out to 2.3 hp so it is easiest to just accept that hp ratings are not always truthful. Use them as a general guide in comparing routers.

Bosch had a bad batch of switches for the 1617's years ago and people still harp about it. Bosch stands behind their products and goes beyond warranty requirements. I have had no problems with mine in over 11 years of use.

 

I have a Bosch MR23 and unless your doing commercial raised panels with BIG bits day in and day out, I doubt anyone could need or want anything much more heavy duty and powerful.

 

Check out the big Triton router. It's made for table routing.

 

I agree George. I was just about to ask why the Triton was not on the short list?

 

Hi Ralph and welcome to the forum

As other people have chimed-in about the Bosch, etc I'll handle the DW625, a tool I'm very familiar with. I own a DW625 as well as two earlier Elu MOF177e routers (fundamentally the same machine, different body colour, sold as the Elu 3339 in the USA). The oldest MOF177e is now about 25 years old, my regular router is a 13 year old MOF177e. The DW625 is retained for specific jig routing tasks

DeWalt 625 Many negative comments on DeWalts customer service. Concern re base size for large bits, and collett apparently doesn’t extend close enough to base (a problem with my Superior router especially since the base is smaller than the bit I want to use.)

I've got one on my desk as I write this; base opening circa 66mm (just over 2-9/16in, or a similar size to the Bosch GOF1700ACE/1615EVS) at the narrowest point, plunge depth 70mm and collet comes to within 5mm of bottom face of sub base (so again comparable to the Bosch GOF1700ACE/1615EVS I used to own). For use in a router table this, and probably all other heavy duty plunge routers, really require a collet extender. Fine depth adjuster is an after market accessory but can be extemporised using a 10 x 1.75mm metric nut, a tube spanner and a tommy bar if needs be. No through the base adjuster unless you get the Trend T11 variant (unfortunately not yet available in the USA). If you want a vast array of guide bushes then this router supports them, either from deWalt or 3rd parties such as Trend (check availability in the USA as the range there is less than we have here - here this router has the largest range of any on the market). I don't know about DW's service in the USA. The main thing from my perspective (as a trade carpenter) is that spares are readily and cheaply available. They are here, and from chats with guys in the USA they are there, too. What's worn out in 20+ years of ownership? Brushes, upper/lower bearings, collets/collet nuts, speed controller (only one so far), Tufnol sub-bases, and the usual assortment of broken knobs, thumbscrews, etc that you get when you drag a tool around in a truck or van.

Regards

Phil

 

Ralph doesn't tell us where in Canada he lives but as far as I can tell from a quick attempt on the internet unless he lives in Alberta or British Columbia his only source of Triton routers is the internet ( Amazon.com ) or some spots in Alberta or BC, so no real aftermarket support although it certainly does look like a nice router - rather large but certainly lots of power

 

Wow, timely and excellent responses - thanks. I live on the west coast - Vancouver Island. Was also in Rockler Tools in Portland last week; they wanted to sell me the PC7518.

Mike, on the electrical side we are of course using 15 amp circuits. So if 2.3 hp draws 15 amps, are you suggesting the 3+ hp units are really not putting out their advertised horsepower? I'm still puzzled as to why some routers use 15 amps for 3 1/4 hp and others only get 2.25/2.3hp for the same draw - doesn't make sense to me.

George and James, I did look at the Triton TRA001 at our local KMS Tools. The salesman didn't like it and it looked huge. He demo'd the two part action in one of the two knobs and it looked awkward. Maybe I'd better give it another lookover. Does anyone here have direct experience with it?

 

Hi Ralph

on the electrical side we are of course using 15 amp circuits. So if 2.3 hp draws 15 amps, are you suggesting the 3+ hp units are really not putting out their advertised horsepower? I'm still puzzled as to why some routers use 15 amps for 3 1/4 hp and others only get 2.25/2.3hp for the same draw - doesn't make sense to me.

On your side of the pond there seems to be no rhyme or reason about the amperages of comparable machines. Not one of the claims made for machines putting out 3HP is true. In the EU the regulations on what you can claim are far stricter. For use the wattages/HP (based on 745 watts = 1 HP) on those tools are:-

Porter Cable 7518 - 1800 watts or 2.15 HP

Bosch 1617EVS 2.25 hp - N/A here, but when sold stated as 1400 watts or 1.88 HP

Bosch MRC23EVSK (GMF1600) 2.3hp only – 1600 watts or 2.15 HP

DeWalt 625 - 2000 watts or 2.68 HP

Freud FC3000VCE - currently unavailable here, 2200 watts or 2.95 HP

Freud FT2000 - difficult to find since production moved to Russia, 1900 watts or 2.55 HP. FT2200 had same motor rating

Triton TRA001 - 2000 watts or 2.68 HP

Those are, of course, input wattages. Output power is down on that quite a bit

Regards

Phil

 

I have had a TRA001 for many years. There is no issue on using the knobs for height adjustment. In any case the current models use a winder through the table. I have just bought a new TRB001 which has this winder as standard. As I have been playing with my new table saw, I have not set the TRB001 into the router table yet.

 

Ralph, I have had a Triton mounted on my table since I built it. Maybe 4/5 years ago and I love it. As I stated it is made for under table use and I haven't had a problem with any part of it. Mine has the table top winder, but I seldom use it. I just reach under the table and turn the knobs. I'm sure the salesman has never used a Triton and wasn't familiar with how it works.

 

I completely agree with my two friends James and George, the Triton TR-001 or whatever the latest version is called was designed for table use with it's above table bit change and height adjustment. The spring takes but seconds to remove and it has micro height adjustment. It also has all the power that could ever be required. As a hand held plunge router it scores very low on my list of recommendations. The Triton TR001 under my table has been there for some years without any problems.

 

Hi Ralph,
in Italy many people look at CMT. CMT is a good manufacturer, they have a 2000 watt too, you can see Utensili per elettrofresatrici, utensili per lavorazione legno, utensili diamante - CMT Utensili.
Regards
Marco

 

link:
http://www.cmtutensili.com/show_items.asp?pars=PJPT~CMT7E~2

 

Triton, Triton, Triton.

 

Marco, the CMT router is a Triton that is rebranded with CMT markings, not sold in North America.

Ralph, the advertised hp ratings will give you a general idea and the wattage numbers in the US/Canada are slightly different than in the UK. Don't spend your time worrying about the numbers. The bottom line is if a router pulls 15 amps it is a good choice.

Triton routers are interesting designs for table use only, they are terrible for free hand use. If you want the best information about them call Sommerfeld Tools; Marc Sommerfeld used to use them exclusivly in his router tables. Marc stopped selling them because of problems over the plastic worm gear but that has been corrected with a metal worm gear and Marc is considering selling them again. Good luck on getting service on a Triton.

If you are looking for a router combo kit I prefer the Bosch models. Keep in mind that the MR23 routers can not be used with aftermarket lifts because of the external power bus. If you want to use a lift then the 1617EVS is a good choice. I have never found the need for a lift but some people prefer them.

 

Hi MIke,
You're right, thanks for the information, in effects there are the same. Now I know
Regards

 

For what its worth, Bosch fixed the switch problem on newer models. The switch complaints pretty much stopped a couple of years ago. If I were going to do what you're planning, I would prefer a bit more powerful machine in the table, although my Bosch 1617 has handled what I've thrown at it.

 

Porter cable 7518 you can't go wrong wit this choice. i have a couple of this ones

 

A further question: I believe that my 3" dia raised panel bit needs to be able to pass through the router integral base plate mechanism where it fastens to the underside of the router table (but not necessarily through the phenolic base plate; I can custom make one for the table out of plywood with a 3" hole). If the bit can't pass through, how would I be able to start cutting with the bit low on the first pass and keep raising it to final cut height? I realize multiple adjustment of the fence is the alternative, but isn't multi step raising of the bit (using the stops) a better procedure?

 

Hi Ralph - I don't think one method is any better than the other. Many architectural profiles don't allow for changes in the bit height.
I don't think much has been said about the Freud 3000. I just went down and measured the opening in mine. It measures 3-5/8", just slightly larger than the hole in my router plate. The largest insert I have for the plate is 3-1/8". I've been running the 3000 for about two years now. I did have one issue when I first got it about an inability to get it centered correctly for bushing use. I contacted Freud support and they had me return it for warranty. It came back spot on and has been running great since. More than enough power for anything I've thrown at it anyway. I just left the springs in and use a automotive type speed wrench with a 10mm interior hex socket to run the router up and down. That neutralized any issues with the thread pitch on the lead screw and effort required to raise the router against it's (not inconsiderable) weight and against the springs.

 

Ron, since the PC 7518 and the Bosch MR23 have the same amount of power(15 amps) the decision must fall to other features like ease of adjustment. The PC motor spins in the base for height adjustments and the switch/speed control are never in the same location. The Bosch has 3 detents for getting close and a fine adjuster to dial in the exact bit height. The motor moves in a linear vertical motion so the switch and speed control are always in the same place under the table. Both are quality heavy duty routers but the PC costs a great deal more. In fact you can get the MRC23EVSK combo kit which also has a plunge base for about $10 less than the fixed base PC 7518 alone. Since I own both of these models I can tell you either is a good choice but I prefer the Bosch.

Ralph, both of these routers have large openings in the base so that is a non issue. You are better off setting the bit height and adjusting the fence, less chance of alignment problems.

 

I agree with you a 100 % and you get a better deal with the bosch. and i guess it's just me that I prefer Porter Cable for some reason. I have used PC for many years and I can't see my self other brands for the stuff that I do, but you're right, I have never compare this two routers ...... thanks for making a point,,, I just learned some today. thanks.....

 

I rang a service depot yesterday to see about having new bearings installed in my Triton TRA001, which is years old.

I was told, that in the last 10 years, they have only had 1 Triton in to replace the bearing...... To me, thats a good indication of their reliability.

 

I have a Triton plung router 3-1/4 hp in my routr table & it has a dust port. It cones with a crank handle to raise & lower it in the table. It locks to change bite & it comes with 1/4" & 1/2" collets. Great machine.

 

I agree with Mike in regard to the Bosch MR23 combo pack being a great choice

the fixed base is great - mounted upside down in the router table - throught the bottom plate adjustment

pops in and out quick and easy / sets so well that I have done many cuts forgetting to use the lock lever and not noticed until I went to take the motor out of the table or adjust to a different hieght.

Service support all through out North America

all the power your going to get out of 110/120v 15 amp

and great handle power control and LED work light when power on

My other router is DeWalt no complaints but does not match features for adjust through the plate of plunge, LED light, power in the grip etc.

 

Well, the jury is in - my choice is the Triton TRA001! It seems to have lots of devotees and I can't resist the many features its owners love. I think especially for a relative amateur like me they'll be helpful.

For those who own one, here's an interesting web link I came across:

ooops, I can't post web addresses yet. Try 3 w's dot raygirling dot co dot uk slash triton dot htm

One difference I'm noting in the display model at my local tool shop - the plunge knob disconnect in the centre of one of the handles is a push in to latch/push in to unlatch instead of the turning control generally illustrated. Anybody know how long that's been on the market?

 

Get a Porter cable

If I live in US/Canada and must use 110V 15 amps, I would buy a TRUE US designed router like the Porter Cable.

Reason:-
15A*110V=1650W and if divided by 746W/HP cannot get more than 2.15HP.

Any router including Triton, Bosch etc that claims 3HP or more are liars. Hitachi use the word "peak HP" whatever that means because it is NOT true HP.
If a router is designed in 220V to 240V countries and only ADAPTED SUPERFICAILLY to sell in US/Canada market, they are bad for long term use. The bearings, the shaft diameter, the screw threads, the motor, the base were in metric dimensions - only some parts are or can be converted to imperial dimemsions. If space is limited, conversion cannot be done. A small space for motor cannot accommodate a motor that requires thicker wires for higher amperage due to lower voltage.

People who blames Dewalt for lack of Router parts in USA do not understand that routers designed by ELU and built in Europe, must have metric parts so can only imported from Europe when their router breaks down..

In Australia, I would buy a Triton. In America/Canada NO.

Reuel

 

Hi Reuel

If a router is designed in 220V to 240V countries and only ADAPTED SUPERFICAILLY to sell in US/Canada market, they are bad for long term use. The bearings, the shaft diameter, the screw threads, the motor, the base were in metric dimensions - only some parts are or can be converted to imperial dimemsions. If space is limited, conversion cannot be done. A small space for motor cannot accommodate a motor that requires thicker wires for higher amperage due to lower voltage.

Where on earth do you get that from? Bosch routers, in fact ALL Bosch power tools, are manufactured on a GLOBAL basis with some countries being allocated certain products individually and others being made in several places simultaneously. All Bosch fixed base routers that we see here in the UK originate in the USA, but the plunge routers come from Germany, in the main. The same goes for deWalt routers; the DW625 is manufactured in at least Mexico and Italy at present, as are (for example) cordless tools like the DW608/DW618 pinners, and I've seen items from both countries here (my DW608 is Mexican, not a grey import, either, the DW618 is German). NOBODY in manufacturing these items converts ANYTHING between metric and Imperial. Apart from the motor windings and the speed controller the only differences from country to country in routers is often the collets and the type/size of moulded-on plug. Even the on/off switches these days are most often over-rated to allow their use in different countries. As to the space required for 110 volt router motors being greater, I'd suggest talking to a motor rewind specialist who will inform you that the weight of wire in a 110 volt motor is the same as that in a 230volt motor of equivalent output, regardless of wire thickness. In case you hadn't heard bearing sourcing is done on an international basis these days (and for the last 30 or more years for that matter) and in engineering terms a specification is a specification, be it a metric spec or an Imperial/inch one.

I've been repairing my own routers for about 30 years. My router of choice is often an Elu/deWalt design. In other words I've gained some knowledge what the insides of various Elu and DW routers looks like. The original Elu MOF98 came in 110 volt versions long before Elu and B&D got in bed with each and initially were hand-wound for the UK trade market. The windings on those early MOF98s were done by hand to support a niche market in the UK. Side by side with a 230 volt model there was no apparent power loss between the 230 volt and 110 volt models (we tried that out at the time). Even the power cord was the same, because with typical German efficiency Elu had over-engineered that, too, so it would happily work with 110 volts as well as 230 volts. The same is also true for the MOF177e/DW625/3339 designs (having gutted a few of those) regardless of whether they come from Switzerland, Italy, Slovenia or Mexico (seen all four)

BTW if you want to be pedantic the voltage in the USA is 120 volts (isn't it?) - 110 volts is "site" voltage in the UK and Ireland. Mains voltage in the UK is actually 240 volts, in Continental Europe is 220 volts, although for the sake of harmonisation products for the European market are all designed for 230 volts these days. All those figures are nominal and the certification requirements call for all appliances to be able to work on voltages +/- 10%. In the case of 120 volt tools that gives a range of 108 to 132 volts and for 230 volt tools, 207 to 253 volts.

People who blames Dewalt for lack of Router parts in USA do not understand that routers designed by ELU and built in Europe, must have metric parts so can only imported from Europe when their router breaks down.

Are you saying that nobody in the USA is capable of making parts in metric? I'm sure that many engineers on this forum would refute that statement. IF DW has a problem stocking parts then surely that's down to their own internal organisation, or lack of it. If we can get hold of Chionese-made DW components over here (for cordless tools, for example), then why can't they in the USA?

In Australia, I would buy a Triton

May I suggest that you consider moving to mainland China, then? After all that's where Triton's are manufactured, isn't it?

Perplexed

Phil

 

Wow, my innocent request for router purchase advice has generated some fireworks! At least no politics!

Thank you so much to all who've helped, considerably, with a decision I felt unequiped to make!

Phil - obviously electrically knowlegeable - any comment on 50Hz via 60, in different parts of the world, and impact if any on tools like these?

This is a great forum, well organized, if somewhat complex - a marker perhaps of the considerable resources available on it. Perspectives from different parts of the world are particularly interesting. I expect to be back when the new router gets unpacked and goes into service. Meanwhile I'll keep reading!

 

any comment on 50Hz via 60, in different parts of the world, and impact if any on tools like these?

Hi Ralph

Routers generally use universal motors which are largely unaffected by the frequency of the power, within reasonable constraints, so they are relatively unaffected by whether the frequency is 50Hz or 60Hz (look here on the P-C web site to see what I mean - the single-speed PC 691 is rated for use on power supplies between 25Hz and 60Hz). The problems can occur with variable speed routers, such as the P-C 891 because of the way in which the variable speed unit controls the motor (note that on the same page as before the P-C 891 is quoted as 60Hz only).

That said I have a USA-spec Festo OF1000 router, which has variable speed and which runs perfectly well on 110 volt, 50Hz despite the manufacturers strict insistance that it won't (rating plate states 60Hz only). Against that the old Elu MOF77 varoable speed router I'm looking at actually states 220 volt, 50~60Hz

Good luck with your new router!

Regards

Phil

 

Hi Ralph

Take a hard look at the Freud router,it will put the DeWalt and the Makita to shame,I have 3 of the Freuds routers and they are great.
Black Friday is coming and it will be great time to get one or two..
I got one last year for 149.oo at my door step.

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-FT3000V.../B000OYIYNM/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1352086872&sr=1-1&keywords=freud+router

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-FT3000V...ge/product-reviews/B000OYIYNM/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

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