I'm soon going to be making the subfloor for my cabin to be (hurray!) I'm having a hard time finding nails for my air nailer - I've found some 2 3/8" straight shank galvanized nails, should these be sufficient? By code, the nails only need to be 50mm long, but the straight shank is throwing me off. I'm sure they'll be fine, but I was wondering what you guys thought.
bobbotron
When my dad had his last house built he insisted on the sub-floor being "glued and screwed". Since this is a cabin nails will do. A ring shank nail would be my preference. Less chance of them working their way out.
GCG
GCG
Exactly what Patrick said. Galvanized ring nails hold pretty well though.
Do not use straight shank nails for flooring, unless you like the sound of a squeaky floor...
Speaking of HG nails, I had to take a small exterior staircase apart a couple of days ago. It was all PT lumber, only about three years old. No problem with it, just needs to be changed because of the deck reno. Anyway, the HD 3 1/4" casing nails that held the treads were almost impossible to get back out. One of them took two of us to break the bond with the wood.
Do not use straight shank nails for flooring, unless you like the sound of a squeaky floor...
Speaking of HG nails, I had to take a small exterior staircase apart a couple of days ago. It was all PT lumber, only about three years old. No problem with it, just needs to be changed because of the deck reno. Anyway, the HD 3 1/4" casing nails that held the treads were almost impossible to get back out. One of them took two of us to break the bond with the wood.
I watched a house go up in the next subdivision. They put glue (Liquid Nails?) on the floor joists, drop the plywood in place and nail it in place. I wish my house had the subflooring glued as we have a bunch of squeeks. If I was doing the job, I would glue it and fasten with screws. Nails will pull loose over time.
When I worked for an industrial supply house, I recall seeing an article in a trade magazine about a system that ran screws through a "magazine" like nails. You didn't have to bend over but stand up to drive the screws. Can't recall the company.
When I worked for an industrial supply house, I recall seeing an article in a trade magazine about a system that ran screws through a "magazine" like nails. You didn't have to bend over but stand up to drive the screws. Can't recall the company.
John; they pretty much all offer that now. Look for "screw guns" if you're shopping.
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Some have the long extension, some don't.
The short version is aimed at drywallers, I think(?). If you're doing a ceiling you need one hand to push up, the other for the gun, so a long reach isn't necessary.
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Some have the long extension, some don't.
The short version is aimed at drywallers, I think(?). If you're doing a ceiling you need one hand to push up, the other for the gun, so a long reach isn't necessary.
Hi Rob
The 2 3/8" nails will do the job just fine,put them on 6" centers you can use screws but it's a over kill thing the norm,it's just a small cabin ,,right most of the nails now days are ring shank type,made for that type of job
as a side note,the nail-er are fun to use,bang,bang,bang,bang,bang, take that, I recall the 1st time I used mine I must have used 1/2 big Box of 3 1/4" long nails,it was so neat to drive in a 3" nail with just a shot of air.. :moil::moil::sold::yes4::yes4:
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The 2 3/8" nails will do the job just fine,put them on 6" centers you can use screws but it's a over kill thing the norm,it's just a small cabin ,,right
most of the nails now days are ring shank type,made for that type of job as a side note,the nail-er are fun to use,bang,bang,bang,bang,bang, take that, I recall the 1st time I used mine I must have used 1/2 big Box of 3 1/4" long nails,it was so neat to drive in a 3" nail with just a shot of air.. :moil::moil::sold::yes4::yes4:
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Thanks for all the responses guys. I went to my local fastener store this morning, who usually has EVERY type of fastener known to man. They only had straight shank 28 degree galv. nails - I picked up a box since I wasn't leaving empty handed and I had to run off to work. We could do screws since it's not a big area, but I'm thinking the nails will do.
I think we'll put down glue under the plywood, can't decide on what we'll do for fasteners yet. Ring shanks are hard to fine around here, and I'm taking time off to do this next week, so it's gotta get done then..
Dan - I had a similar experience, trying to take a nailer 2x4 out of my shed when I put in a window. Just two nails, one on either end, it was ridiculous how tenacious it was.
I think we'll put down glue under the plywood, can't decide on what we'll do for fasteners yet. Ring shanks are hard to fine around here, and I'm taking time off to do this next week, so it's gotta get done then..
Dan - I had a similar experience, trying to take a nailer 2x4 out of my shed when I put in a window. Just two nails, one on either end, it was ridiculous how tenacious it was.
My framing nailer is a Hitachi NR83A. Think that is comparable to yours. (Don't remember what your's is.)
For sub-floors I use something comparable to Senco M002041 - Ring Shank Full Rounded Head Nails, 8d, 2 3/8 x .113 (80mm x 2.9mm) Bright Basic... and I put down Liquid Nails Construction Adhesive on the jousts.
That gun nail will fit:
- Senco SN60, SN65, SN65C, FramePro 600/700/750 FRH
- Bostitch N90RHN
- DeWalt D51845
- Hitachi NR83A
- Paslode 5324SRH
- Porter Cable FR350
and knock-off's thereof.
I don't use screws. Screws are slower and if you did use screws, you would have to ensure that all the heads were countersunk below the surface. Other reasons- Screws are more brittle than nails. If there is an application where I have to use screws in a floor (such as in decking), then I also use a type that lock-in so they don't back out from years of vibration.
For sub-floors I use something comparable to Senco M002041 - Ring Shank Full Rounded Head Nails, 8d, 2 3/8 x .113 (80mm x 2.9mm) Bright Basic... and I put down Liquid Nails Construction Adhesive on the jousts.
That gun nail will fit:
- Senco SN60, SN65, SN65C, FramePro 600/700/750 FRH
- Bostitch N90RHN
- DeWalt D51845
- Hitachi NR83A
- Paslode 5324SRH
- Porter Cable FR350
and knock-off's thereof.
I don't use screws. Screws are slower and if you did use screws, you would have to ensure that all the heads were countersunk below the surface. Other reasons- Screws are more brittle than nails. If there is an application where I have to use screws in a floor (such as in decking), then I also use a type that lock-in so they don't back out from years of vibration.
Good grief, I just saw that home depot sells Ardox (spiral) galvanized nails for my nailer.. but only in 3 1/4" long! Am considering it, I'd like to see one of those back out.
What type of nails does it use, Ron? 20 deg. wire collated? 28Deg.? I think you had mentioned it a while back...
Yeh. that PT issue is a pain in the ---. I'd be tempted to just glue and hand nail it, rather than scouring the country looking for the machine solution. Just put on a CD, stick some cold ones in the fridge, and have at her!
Yeh. that PT issue is a pain in the ---. I'd be tempted to just glue and hand nail it, rather than scouring the country looking for the machine solution. Just put on a CD, stick some cold ones in the fridge, and have at her!
That's fair Dan. I may end up screwing and gluing the boards down with those green PT deck boards you can buy everywhere.
It's not that big of an area either, I really just wanted to use my new nailer! I figure I'll get to use it for the side sheathing at least.
It's not that big of an area either, I really just wanted to use my new nailer!
I figure I'll get to use it for the side sheathing at least.
Knee pads, Ron, knee pads, or you`ll end up like me.
(You didn`t answer the question about what specs your nailer requires, and I couldn`t find the nailer listed)
(You didn`t answer the question about what specs your nailer requires, and I couldn`t find the nailer listed)
I think I'm leaning towards screwed and glued now... About counter sinking them, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have to drill countered holes right? Just screw them flush in the plywood?
Hi Rob,
I'm a fellow Canadian and I live in a house that was built without screwing the subfloor, and I wish I had the $ to re-do all the floors because of this. You state that it's a small area so why not use the glue & screws? I assume you go to a cabin to have peace of mind,
you will be happy you did.
Cheers,
Dan
I'm a fellow Canadian and I live in a house that was built without screwing the subfloor, and I wish I had the $ to re-do all the floors because of this. You state that it's a small area so why not use the glue & screws? I assume you go to a cabin to have peace of mind,
you will be happy you did.
Cheers,
Dan
After all, one must strive to use new tools. Otherwise, we can't justify the purchase of future tools.
Rob, the nail specs for PT lumber require either hot dipped galvanized, stainless steel, or ceramic coated (the green decking ones). According to what I've been told the ACQ treating is very corrosive to fasteners. I don't like stainless steel nails because they tend to let go easier than brite common. Regular galvanized would be okay for a good while, but might corrode over time. If teh green screws are good ones, they should counter sink themselves. And as several others have said, use subfloor glue. PL 400 is good and even the Home Hardware brand is fine. Buy the big tubes, it will pay for the gun you need in short order.
Hey all,
Just wanted to say thanks for all of the advice! We glued and screwed the floor with those green screws. The comments here were very helpful!!
Earlier on this week we got the walls up!
Untitled by bobbotron1, on Flickr
Just wanted to say thanks for all of the advice! We glued and screwed the floor with those green screws. The comments here were very helpful!!
Earlier on this week we got the walls up!
Untitled by bobbotron1, on Flickr
Rob; not being critical, but where's the top plate? It should be doubled to carry the roof load. The second (top) plate overlaps the lower of the two top plates to tie the walls together, which brings me to to my second question. Why are there vertical openings in each corner? (Windows?)
If you use 'stud' length studs (92 1/4") they, with a bottom plate and two top plates, brings you to a vertical ht of 8' 1". You look like you're right at 8' now(?).
If you drywall, the ceiling goes up first, then you're down to 7' 11 1/2"...a major pain for doing the interior sidewalls.
You've probably already planned all this out and I'm butting in where I'm not needed...
If you use 'stud' length studs (92 1/4") they, with a bottom plate and two top plates, brings you to a vertical ht of 8' 1". You look like you're right at 8' now(?).
If you drywall, the ceiling goes up first, then you're down to 7' 11 1/2"...a major pain for doing the interior sidewalls.
You've probably already planned all this out and I'm butting in where I'm not needed...
Hey Dan. Whoopes, that photo is from before when we added the 2nd top plate. Of course I'd get called out for it on a wood working board. We've added the side strips sheathing too.
I appreciate you calling me out on that though, always good to have some helpful criticism when something looks particularly stuffed up.
We've added the side strips sheathing too.I appreciate you calling me out on that though, always good to have some helpful criticism when something looks particularly stuffed up.
I don't think there is a ring shanked galvinized nail. The reason the Galvinized 16d finish nail held so well in the stair tread is the galvanizing. If you got sprial shank galvinized that fits your gun have a blast!!!! they should hold.
I've laid quite a lot of floors and generally use 63mm (or 51mm sometimes) ringshanks and thixotropic adhesive (Paratan being one brand I've used) from a skeleton gun.
You don't need much of the adhesive at all as it expands and fills slight gaps. Just a light smear on the joist and on the tongue joint does the trick.
Adhesives like that are far and away better than PVA based glues in my opinion.
No need for screwing it down as I don't think it gains anything significant over paratan and ringshanks.
You can get galvanised ringshanks for Paslode cordless nailguns as I've used them many times.
THIS* site is UK based but might give you an idea of what nail gun nails are easy to get hold of. I assume other countries will have stuff much the same.
*I have no connection to this company, its just the first result Google threw up to my search criteria and it shows whats out there for the nailguns.
You don't need much of the adhesive at all as it expands and fills slight gaps. Just a light smear on the joist and on the tongue joint does the trick.
Adhesives like that are far and away better than PVA based glues in my opinion.
No need for screwing it down as I don't think it gains anything significant over paratan and ringshanks.
You can get galvanised ringshanks for Paslode cordless nailguns as I've used them many times.
THIS* site is UK based but might give you an idea of what nail gun nails are easy to get hold of. I assume other countries will have stuff much the same.
*I have no connection to this company, its just the first result Google threw up to my search criteria and it shows whats out there for the nailguns.
floor nailing
Hi Rob,
Nice picture of the cabin. Looks like the view is spectacular. Congrats. What part of this great country of ours are you located?
Cheers,
Dan
Hi Rob,
Nice picture of the cabin. Looks like the view is spectacular. Congrats. What part of this great country of ours are you located?
Cheers,
Dan
Hi Rob,
My father in law and i were discussing my recent trip to Val d'Or and he was saying I should have driven to Ottawa and then head North through Wakefield. He goes through there often to get to Hogan for fishing.It's definitely a beautiful area.
My father in law and i were discussing my recent trip to Val d'Or and he was saying I should have driven to Ottawa and then head North through Wakefield. He goes through there often to get to Hogan for fishing.It's definitely a beautiful area.
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