Chris; plane blades should have a very slight convex curvature, side to side. The reasoning is that it prevents the corners from digging in, ie the ctr. of the blade digs a wee bit deeper. I'm guessing that this'll get some replies to the contrary...

Interesting comparisons here:
Plane Iron Tests

 

Chris; plane blades should have a very slight convex curvature, side to side. The reasoning is that it prevents the corners from digging in, ie the ctr. of the blade digs a wee bit deeper. I'm guessing that this'll get some replies to the contrary....

Correct! (ish) Smoothers, I agree should ideally be slightly cambered for many tasks. Scrub planes (or a jack being used for that) should have a pronounced camber. A jack or jointer plane with a cambered iron on the other hand would be hopeless for trimming a door. As would a rebate plane, mitre planes, block planes, shoulder planes, ploughs, spokeshaves (except for those with convex/concave soles), etc - they should not have their blades square cornered and straight edged. It all depends on what you are trying to do with the plane. Here endeth the sermon :nono:

Regards

Phil

 

Heh...I guess I'll argue with myself!
Ron Hock disagrees with me...
"Check the blade to be sure that it is staying square. If it’s not, push a little harder on the high corner while honing the bevel to bring it back square."
HOCK TOOLS -- Sharpening Notes

 

Heh...I guess I'll argue with myself!
Ron Hock disagrees with me...
"Check the blade to be sure that it is staying square. If it’s not, push a little harder on the high corner while honing the bevel to bring it back square."
HOCK TOOLS -- Sharpening Notes

hahaha.......

Sounds like my shed.....

However, I do agree with your original comment for planes used to hog out timber before using a smoothing plane.

 

Man, I thought I was cheap. I'm so cheap, they have my picture next to the word in the dictionary!

 

dan, some plane blades, especially for fore planes are purposefully convex. they can really hog out alog of material, and the corner lines would be very noticeable in that case.

smoothing planes like the venerable #4 might be very slightly rounded off at the corners to keep likes from resulting. but that is not really necesssary as they generally take very fine shavings at a time.

 

Chris; the only reason i mentioned it was because I had it drilled into me by my HS Woodwork instructor; he was obsessive about it. The class planes were his 'children'!
I do like planing... very satisfying...and quiet.

 

Chris, this is a very good subject. I use several methods of sharpening, and most are relatively inexpensive. All very good woodworkers that I know of develop sharpening skills that keep their tools sharp, because top-of-the-line woodworking cannot be done with dull tools.
I did not know that you work for 3M. That is very interesting. Several years ago, I was shopping at Lowe's and spotted some sanding blocks and compatible sanding media that was labeled as "3M - SandBlaster", I bought quite a bit of the media in numerous grits and also a couple of the sanding blocks. I dearly love using those tools, as they perform very well and are very comfortable to use. The media is unlike anything else that I've seen since or prior to that purchase. I have tried numerous sources and nobody seems to be able to send me in the right direction. Can you find-out if that product is still being marketed? I have been able to find other sanding media labeled "3M - SandBlaster", but it is different from the open-washable media that I previously purchased. The current offering is available at Wal*Mart and it is cut to the correct size, but very different.

Thanks very much,
Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia

 

otis, i'll see what i can find out, but i'm in the hospital info systems division, so i'm not very close to the source.

but the perk we get is they have pallet sales where we get a pallet of stuff that we can buy cheap. that usually includes sanding supplies.

 

3M company store sales? Never heard of them.

 

heh, you must work for 3M too!

 

i set mine to give me a 28 degree bevel, what i consider a good compromise between the 25 and 30 bevels that are so common for chisels and plane irons. i simply glued a piece of a free paint stirrer to a scrap 1x4 to make it easy to insert the blade.

Chris,

Very interested in this and would like to make the same setup. I'm a little confused as to how you set up the above quoted. Any chance for a picture or a little more detail? It's probably right there but I'm just not getting it.

Thanks...Mike

 

the way the jig works is that the angle of the bevel depende on how far from the end of the jig the blade extends. the farther it extends, the lower the angle.

for this one, 50mm (~2") gives a bevel 25 degrees, and 38mm gives 30 degrees. so i glued a stop block 1 5/8" (~42mm) from the edge. now i can butt the blade up to the stop block and attach the jig without measuring 42mm every time. that should give me a bevel angle pretty close to 28 degrees.

i can take a pic of it tonight after work if you would like

 

Even cheaper.

I'm sure I've probably mentioned my method here. Or somewhere. :lol:

Plane irons, I would say use a jig, or fixture, to hold them while sharpening. Because they are always at the same angle when being used.

Chisels, I sharpen those on my little bench belt sander. I try to stick close to the factory angle when sharpening, am not anal about it. Reasoning is, that any time you use a chisel, the blade is going to be at a slightly different angle than last time. So with the angle, close enough is good enough. Possibly have to sharpen a bit oftener, but sharpening goes SO much faster, and the results seem just as good as precise angle sharpening. Lathe chisels are sharpened the same way.

I believe I got the idea while reading an article about Sam Maloof, at least I think it was about him, possibly one of the other top-notch furniture makers. Apparently he bought cheap plastic handle chisels, then proceeded to use them as paint can openers, screwdrivers, whatever, and when he needed one as an actual chisel he sharpened on on a belt sander. When his chisels got too short, he bought new ones. Someone really liked his short chisels, because they were so easy to handle, and asked him where he bought his chisels, so he could get a set. The answer was the local hardware. Anyway, that's how I sharpen my chisels, and will keep on sharpening them.
:dance3:

 

Hey Chris,

Is this close to what you're talking about.

GCG

 

yes that is the sort of set up stop blocks i am talking about. mine is really simple though

 

Chris that's a great method sir, sounds like the Scary-Sharp methodology which I prefer and am also new to. I learned from some old-timers how to sharpen by hand and got pretty decent at it.

Funny thing is I broke down this week and ordered a $12 fixture roller guide, forgot the brand off Amazon, will be here tomorrow. Supposed to work well with the Scary-Sharp method and with three hand-planes and a few chisels, figured it'd be a good start to improving my sharpening skills.

 

Bravo, I bet it is the same one I have ... Robert Larson ... mine cost $11 and I got if off Amazon.

Mike, here are the pics:

 

Well color me purple and call me Prince, that's exactly it, knew it was some guys American sounding name vs a Mongolian or Chinese name like Genghis Khan haha. Just got an Amazon/UPS text it just hit my front door.

So while wood planes are "generally" sharpened @25 deg (emphasis on generally as in majority), what are wood chisels? Just because a wood chisel will fit into this Larson sharpening guide which is identical to a dozen others who sell it for 3x as much, is it the same angle?

I mean are the majority of mortise chisels also 25 degrees? If so then sure, throw it on there and go, otherwise it wouldn't make sense. This style sharpener isn't like the couple of Veritas guides which I still like and are fully adjustable with a quick switch for the micro-bevel which is nice.

 

Bravo, while I am happy with it for plane irons, I am not as happy with it for chisels.

The jig has two sets of jaws, the upper set is for wider things like plane irons, and a lower set underneath for narrower things like chisels. The problem I have with chisels is that, at least with my chisels, they get thicker as they get closer to the handle, and the jig does not have a deep enough groove to easily hold them, so it is a struggle to get the jig to grab the chisel.

Plane irons bevels are actually usually 30*, some have a primary bevel of 25* with a secondary bevel od 30*. Low angle planes have lower bevel angles.

Chisels can be anywhere, but generally between 25* and 35*. To determine the angle on a given chisel, you can pinch the end down flat on a flat surface and use a speed square.

 

Well yeah I read that it can be a pain with many chisels on these particular guides. So what angle is the hone guide we both have?

I was eyeballing the Veritas MkII Honing guide

Or perhaps the Veritas Sharepening Sytem

Just saving my sheckles for bigger fish to fry at the moment.

 

The angle depends 100% on where you set the blade (ie - how far the end of the blade sticks out from the guide). The further out the blade sticks, the lower the bevel angle.

The back of the package has the info, but I think it is 50mm (~2") for a 25* bevel, and 38mm (~1 1/2") for a 30* bevel. I use 1 5/8" (~42mm) for mine, which gives me about 28* or so.

 

Thanks Chris, I'm saving your advice here and above on plane vs chisel angles to start out right with mine.

 

those other guides look like they do a good job of holding both irons and chisels.

i think i will try my hand at making a shop built one that uses skate board bearings that holds chisels more easily.

 

Haha, guys like us Chris, sure it's only a $12 honing guide, but hey I can make that. Fact is, I built one out of Poplar, used it on my 50 yr old Fulton plane blade and it's making see-thru full ribbons from 1-3/4" wide cedar.

It was a prototype 15 minute bandsaw project. I came up with a design for one using Sketchup as well, adjustable and with bearing rollers. May build that this weekend. Found a couple ok plans online, nothing I was real crazy about, but I mostly like building my own stuff when possible.

 

something along these lines ... those are 1/2" thick pieces with skate board bearings and a 5/16" bolt, and a simple knob to hold the chisel/blade down ... i can make this thing!

cheers bravo

 

Holy cow I like that simple design, ok you build one and I'll build one and we'll share sharpening horror stories and oven roasted olive oil rubbed black peppercorn turkey wings (healthier than the legs)...oh and a beverage of choice..lol:sold:

I wouldn't know what to do if a local machine shop donated a piece of scrap alum to me.

 

OK Bravo, the game is on! I picked a piece of 1/2" x 1 1/2" x 12" poplar, a 4 1/2" long 5/6" bolt for the wheels, and a 3/8" bolt for the hold-down on my daily trip to Home Depot.

The piece of poplar cost all of $0.50.

This is going to be fun.

 

Well wait, you have a Sketchup of this, while I have only a visual photo requiring my intuitive design intellect to be placed into overdrive...what if I end up with this by accident....

haha it's a RepRapPro...but I reckon I could build one out of poplar and ...well..I'll call it a "RapoRouter"...

Sorry I'm getting sucked into this 3D printing jaz, imagine the jigs we could make with a 3d printer. "oh you need a 1" OD x 1/4"ID x 3/16" wide ID ultra high molecular weight (uhmw) bearing, well have a seat, turn on the game, fire up the barby, gonna be about 45 minutes and the steaks and bearing will be ready"...

But 4realz, I could build it off a glance, but if you have a Sketchup file, I'm versed well enough with it to modify it to my liking. Sad thing is I think I have all the hardware and even some solid oak. Ya see, I hit HD or LOwe's at least twice weekly and pickup a couple of what I was too lazy to look for and it builds...and builds...haha...well I forget where I put the other, then find it and then have my own hardware store much of the time.

 

holy crap bravo, that thing is cool! i have never seen one of them. i'll get started on my honing jig just as soon as i'm done building one of those!

 

not sure if this will work, but i put it in a ZIP file and attached it ... ?

 

That Raporouter looks like one those roast chicken rotisserie thingamabobs.

 

Oh yeah..."set it and forget it" lol...

Thank you Chris, hey I came up with my own design for a guide, this is going to be so cool. Should have mine done this weekend possibly.

 

bravo, share it with me please ... ? yours may be so much cooler than mine that i'd be wasting my time

 

Absolutely, but I'm not finished with the design yet, it's adjustable though for variable surfaces. Same clamping principle for the blades but an added feature on the back. I'll share the plans tomorrow while at work sir.

 

Gentlemen... while honing your sharpening skills (pun intended) don't forget to get the backside of your irons and chisels!!!! These areas too must be dead flat before you can get a satisfactory edge. The closer to a mirror finish the better. Its a couple, three times deal for the life of the tool but well worth it.

For you guys fabricating your own jigs, give some thought to preventing the blade from pivoting side to side while in the jig. A single point should keep it from moving back and forth, but that side to side stuff will drive ya nuts...

Keep a small machinist square handy and check your edge during the sharpening process often. A few seconds up front checking can say you a TON of time correcting a bad angle...

b.

 

Most definitely thought through the side-pivot in my design. This puppy sits flush based on design with a wide track stance and adjustable angle capability.

Chris my Sketchup drawings are complete aside from dimensions, will add those in a little while.

I think all the hardware I have in my shop, will confirm this evening. I'm going to make my own thread for this jig to be fair to the OP of this thread, don't want to clutter his thread ya know?